CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Early Sting was sick. Really WCW and NWA 80s/90s were pretty phenomenal. This new era of wrestling I just can't get into. When that dude Mike from The Real World became a fucking wrestler that is when I tuned out. How the fuck are you getting amped over The Miz when for years we were spoiled by guys like Rude, Henning, Steiner Bros, Sabu, Taz or even SCSA and The Rock?

Val Venis > anyone in the WWE right now.

Well, The Miz's character is written pretty self-aware. That's why you're supposed to hate him. You're being worked.

Also, I think your view of WWE "Right now" is moreso WWE in 2011. Right now there's the strongest roster that they've had in over a decade. Between Bryan, Ambrose, Wyatt, Rollins, Harper, Cesaro, Rowan, Zayn, Owens, Hideo, Devitt, Bo Dallas and Barrett, we have a roster that's as good as WWF in '97 or NWA in '89 or ECW in '95, the year before everything just clicked and became incredible.

I mean, the WWE now vs. WWE in November 2012 is a gigantic world of difference.

Did you watch this year's Wrestlemania?

[hustler]

Early Sting was sick. Really WCW and NWA 80s/90s were pretty phenomenal. This new era of wrestling I just can't get into. When that dude Mike from The Real World became a fucking wrestler that is when I tuned out. How the fuck are you getting amped over The Miz when for years we were spoiled by guys like Rude, Henning, Steiner Bros, Sabu, Taz or even SCSA and The Rock?

Val Venis > anyone in the WWE right now.

[907]

Early Sting was sick. Really WCW and NWA 80s/90s were pretty phenomenal. This new era of wrestling I just can't get into. When that dude Mike from The Real World became a fucking wrestler that is when I tuned out. How the fuck are you getting amped over The Miz when for years we were spoiled by guys like Rude, Henning, Steiner Bros, Sabu, Taz or even SCSA and The Rock?

Val Venis > anyone in the WWE right now.

Well, The Miz's character is written pretty self-aware. That's why you're supposed to hate him. You're being worked.

Also, I think your view of WWE "Right now" is moreso WWE in 2011. Right now there's the strongest roster that they've had in over a decade. Between Bryan, Ambrose, Wyatt, Rollins, Harper, Cesaro, Rowan, Zayn, Owens, Hideo, Devitt, Bo Dallas and Barrett, we have a roster that's as good as WWF in '97 or NWA in '89 or ECW in '95, the year before everything just clicked and became incredible.

I mean, the WWE now vs. WWE in November 2012 is a gigantic world of difference.

Did you watch this year's Wrestlemania?

Was going to say pretty much the same thing. I'd throw Ziggler, Sandow, Both Rhodes boys, and Russev on that list as well.

Val Venis was a pretty one dimensional gimmick, and dude couldn't talk for shit without it. He was awful in Right To Censor and under his real name in TNA. On top of that, he wasn't great in the ring. Not BAD, but far in skill from most of the current guys listed.

[hustler]

Early Sting was sick. Really WCW and NWA 80s/90s were pretty phenomenal. This new era of wrestling I just can't get into. When that dude Mike from The Real World became a fucking wrestler that is when I tuned out. How the fuck are you getting amped over The Miz when for years we were spoiled by guys like Rude, Henning, Steiner Bros, Sabu, Taz or even SCSA and The Rock?

Val Venis > anyone in the WWE right now.

Well, The Miz's character is written pretty self-aware. That's why you're supposed to hate him. You're being worked.

Also, I think your view of WWE "Right now" is moreso WWE in 2011. Right now there's the strongest roster that they've had in over a decade. Between Bryan, Ambrose, Wyatt, Rollins, Harper, Cesaro, Rowan, Zayn, Owens, Hideo, Devitt, Bo Dallas and Barrett, we have a roster that's as good as WWF in '97 or NWA in '89 or ECW in '95, the year before everything just clicked and became incredible.

I mean, the WWE now vs. WWE in November 2012 is a gigantic world of difference.

Did you watch this year's Wrestlemania?

Was going to say pretty much the same thing. I'd throw Ziggler, Sandow, Both Rhodes boys, and Russev on that list as well.

Val Venis was a pretty one dimensional gimmick, and dude couldn't talk for shit without it. He was awful in Right To Censor and under his real name in TNA. On top of that, he wasn't great in the ring. Not BAD, but far in skill from most of the current guys listed.

[Philaflava]

Val served a purpose and he too was written pretty self-aware. Thing is, Mike was dipshit on Real World and was unlikeable then. Whatever you want to say, he is a top name in the WWE and consumes a lot of screen time. It's janky to me. It's like Bud Bundy becoming a rapper or David Arquette becoming affiliated with it. Give me real talents, both on the mic and in the ring and I'm good.

No I did not see Wrestlemania but seriously one of you dudes need to look out for a broham and let me get that WWE channel PW for my Roku. I'm trying to see some Macho Man/Steamboat matches.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Val served a purpose and he too was written pretty self-aware. Thing is, Mike was dipshit on Real World and was unlikeable then. Whatever you want to say, he is a top name in the WWE and consumes a lot of screen time. It's janky to me. It's like Bud Bundy becoming a rapper or David Arquette becoming affiliated with it. Give me real talents, both on the mic and in the ring and I'm good.

No I did not see Wrestlemania but seriously one of you dudes need to look out for a broham and let me get that WWE channel PW for my Roku. I'm trying to see some Macho Man/Steamboat matches.

I'd suggest you give two events from this year a shot:

WWE's Wrestlemania 30
Ring of Honor's War of the Worlds

I go back and forth as to which was the single best wrestling event this year. Both were pretty much flawless as the ROH event was Ring of Honor, who has the top indie talents vs. New Japan Pro Wrestling, which (worldwide speaking) is the number 2 promotion behind WWE. Commentary is in English from WWF Attitude Era's Kevin Kelly and ECW's Steve Corino, both are amazing.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Early Sting was sick. Really WCW and NWA 80s/90s were pretty phenomenal. This new era of wrestling I just can't get into. When that dude Mike from The Real World became a fucking wrestler that is when I tuned out. How the fuck are you getting amped over The Miz when for years we were spoiled by guys like Rude, Henning, Steiner Bros, Sabu, Taz or even SCSA and The Rock?

Val Venis > anyone in the WWE right now.

Well, The Miz's character is written pretty self-aware. That's why you're supposed to hate him. You're being worked.

Also, I think your view of WWE "Right now" is moreso WWE in 2011. Right now there's the strongest roster that they've had in over a decade. Between Bryan, Ambrose, Wyatt, Rollins, Harper, Cesaro, Rowan, Zayn, Owens, Hideo, Devitt, Bo Dallas and Barrett, we have a roster that's as good as WWF in '97 or NWA in '89 or ECW in '95, the year before everything just clicked and became incredible.

I mean, the WWE now vs. WWE in November 2012 is a gigantic world of difference.

Did you watch this year's Wrestlemania?

Was going to say pretty much the same thing. I'd throw Ziggler, Sandow, Both Rhodes boys, and Russev on that list as well.

Val Venis was a pretty one dimensional gimmick, and dude couldn't talk for shit without it. He was awful in Right To Censor and under his real name in TNA. On top of that, he wasn't great in the ring. Not BAD, but far in skill from most of the current guys listed.

I loved him as Eric's lackey Chief Morley in early 2003. Played the sleazy yes-man to perfection.

Sad that in 2002 they aborted the plan for Val Venis to evolve into a motivational speaker like Tom Cruise in Magnolia. Could have been magic.

[907]

Val served a purpose and he too was written pretty self-aware. Thing is, Mike was dipshit on Real World and was unlikeable then. Whatever you want to say, he is a top name in the WWE and consumes a lot of screen time. It's janky to me. It's like Bud Bundy becoming a rapper or David Arquette becoming affiliated with it. Give me real talents, both on the mic and in the ring and I'm good.

No I did not see Wrestlemania but seriously one of you dudes need to look out for a broham and let me get that WWE channel PW for my Roku. I'm trying to see some Macho Man/Steamboat matches.

Miz hasn't been a "top name" since like 2011, and the only time he's gotten in the last year or so is as part of a comedy based tag team. I fuckin hate the guy too, but he really isn't a factor these days.

[907]

Early Sting was sick. Really WCW and NWA 80s/90s were pretty phenomenal. This new era of wrestling I just can't get into. When that dude Mike from The Real World became a fucking wrestler that is when I tuned out. How the fuck are you getting amped over The Miz when for years we were spoiled by guys like Rude, Henning, Steiner Bros, Sabu, Taz or even SCSA and The Rock?

Val Venis > anyone in the WWE right now.

Well, The Miz's character is written pretty self-aware. That's why you're supposed to hate him. You're being worked.

Also, I think your view of WWE "Right now" is moreso WWE in 2011. Right now there's the strongest roster that they've had in over a decade. Between Bryan, Ambrose, Wyatt, Rollins, Harper, Cesaro, Rowan, Zayn, Owens, Hideo, Devitt, Bo Dallas and Barrett, we have a roster that's as good as WWF in '97 or NWA in '89 or ECW in '95, the year before everything just clicked and became incredible.

I mean, the WWE now vs. WWE in November 2012 is a gigantic world of difference.

Did you watch this year's Wrestlemania?

Was going to say pretty much the same thing. I'd throw Ziggler, Sandow, Both Rhodes boys, and Russev on that list as well.

Val Venis was a pretty one dimensional gimmick, and dude couldn't talk for shit without it. He was awful in Right To Censor and under his real name in TNA. On top of that, he wasn't great in the ring. Not BAD, but far in skill from most of the current guys listed.

You like him swinging his junk around, we get it.

Use your words, bro, this isn't P&B.

[907]

Early Sting was sick. Really WCW and NWA 80s/90s were pretty phenomenal. This new era of wrestling I just can't get into. When that dude Mike from The Real World became a fucking wrestler that is when I tuned out. How the fuck are you getting amped over The Miz when for years we were spoiled by guys like Rude, Henning, Steiner Bros, Sabu, Taz or even SCSA and The Rock?

Val Venis > anyone in the WWE right now.

Well, The Miz's character is written pretty self-aware. That's why you're supposed to hate him. You're being worked.

Also, I think your view of WWE "Right now" is moreso WWE in 2011. Right now there's the strongest roster that they've had in over a decade. Between Bryan, Ambrose, Wyatt, Rollins, Harper, Cesaro, Rowan, Zayn, Owens, Hideo, Devitt, Bo Dallas and Barrett, we have a roster that's as good as WWF in '97 or NWA in '89 or ECW in '95, the year before everything just clicked and became incredible.

I mean, the WWE now vs. WWE in November 2012 is a gigantic world of difference.

Did you watch this year's Wrestlemania?

Was going to say pretty much the same thing. I'd throw Ziggler, Sandow, Both Rhodes boys, and Russev on that list as well.

Val Venis was a pretty one dimensional gimmick, and dude couldn't talk for shit without it. He was awful in Right To Censor and under his real name in TNA. On top of that, he wasn't great in the ring. Not BAD, but far in skill from most of the current guys listed.

I loved him as Eric's lackey Chief Morley in early 2003. Played the sleazy yes-man to perfection.

Sad that in 2002 they aborted the plan for Val Venis to evolve into a motivational speaker like Tom Cruise in Magnolia. Could have been magic.

I thought the reason they didn't go through with this was because he has the charisma and charm of a dying racoon?

I hate to shit on the guy, but he was god awful on the mic. I don't see how a gimmick like that could have ever worked with him.

[hustler]

You like him swinging his junk around, we get it.

Use your words, bro, this isn't P&B.

i thought it was humorous gif usage. the first is val celebrating after #BOSSGLOSS gives him big props. the second is him feeling it where it hurts most, after you gave his career such a scathing review. i guess i'll have to be less subtle with my gifs in the future, so that you can fully appreciate them and their meanings.

for the record, i always thought val venis was great,"hello... ladies" was one of the first weapons in my pickup arsenal. i could never get the pelvic thrusts or the towel twirl as good as him tho. out of the mid carders though, goldust is still the GOAT. hands down.

so with the year end polls coming out, how about we have a wrestler of the year? this thread has atleast 10 frequent visitors and im sure theres lurkers who are WWE fans as well.

[907]

He wasn't ever "great" though, he was a dude who got by on a towel and a porn star gimmick for his entire popular run. He couldn't talk, and his finishing move was a top rope splash. Shit, Billy Gunn was a better worker than he was. Like I've said, I don't dislike the guy or the gimmick, but he's being severely overrated here.

As far as polls go:
I'd like to say D-Bry, based on his Maina moments alone, but he's been on the shelf for a minute now.

If it's strictly about who was hands down best in the ring all year, Cesaro wins in a landslide IMO. No one else has had as many amazing in ring moments.

Best character has to go to Wyatt, or MAYBE Ambrose. Tag team of the year is the Dust brothers for sure.

MOTY for me is a tough one. It has to either be Bryan HHH at mania, or the Zayn Cesaro 2/3 falls in NXT to end their feud.

Lots of other solid contenders, but those stand out to me the most.

I went WWE only. I figure it's either that, or we could be talking about this for a long while. I don't think there's a ton of indy fans here anyway, at least not enough to open those floodgates.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

He wasn't ever "great" though, he was a dude who got by on a towel and a porn star gimmick for his entire popular run. He couldn't talk, and his finishing move was a top rope splash. Shit, Billy Gunn was a better worker than he was. Like I've said, I don't dislike the guy or the gimmick, but he's being severely overrated here.

As far as polls go:
I'd like to say D-Bry, based on his Maina moments alone, but he's been on the shelf for a minute now.

If it's strictly about who was hands down best in the ring all year, Cesaro wins in a landslide IMO. No one else has had as many amazing in ring moments.

Best character has to go to Wyatt, or MAYBE Ambrose. Tag team of the year is the Dust brothers for sure.

MOTY for me is a tough one. It has to either be Bryan HHH at mania, or the Zayn Cesaro 2/3 falls in NXT to end their feud.

Lots of other solid contenders, but those stand out to me the most.

I went WWE only. I figure it's either that, or we could be talking about this for a long while. I don't think there's a ton of indy fans here anyway, at least not enough to open those floodgates.

I think we could do four polls:

Wrestler of the Year (WWE)
Wrestler of the Year (Indie & International)
Match of the Year
Event of the Year

That said, everybody in this thread needs to own this event right now. I promise you, it's everything you like about wrestling in one card and legit is just as amazing as Mania was. With Black Friday coming up and plenty of discounts/sales to be had, I really suggest scooping it. This will school you with every big indie name (Colt aside) and every big New Japan name on the same card. Great matches, great promos, great crowd and great Kevin Kelly/Steve Corino commentary -



http://www.highspots.com/Ring-of-Honor/ ... orlds.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ROH and NJPW Present: WAR OF THE WORLDS
Saturday, May 17th, 2014
Manhattan, New York

The Bullet Club Interview

Matt Taven, Tommaso Ciampa, and ACH vs. the team of Forever Hooligans (Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov) and Takkaki Wanatabe

The Decade (BJ Whitmer & Roderick Strong) vs Gedo & Jado

ROH World Television Championship
Jay Lethal w/ Truth Martini vs. KUSHIDA

IWGP Tag Team Championship
"Machine Gun" Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows, representing Bullet Club, vs. Jay & Mark Birscoe

“Mr Wrestling” Kevin Steen vs. Shinsuke Nakamura

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Michael Bennett w/ Maria Bennett

ROH World Tag Team Championship
The Young Bucks vs reDRagon (Bobby Fish & Kyle O'Reilly) w/ UFC star "Filthy" Tom Lawlor

ROH World Championship
Adam Cole vs. Jushin "Thunder" Liger

3 Match for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship
“Phenomenal” AJ Styles vs. “Unbreakable” Michael Elgin vs. Kazuchika Okada

[BigCat8]

He wasn't ever "great" though, he was a dude who got by on a towel and a porn star gimmick for his entire popular run. He couldn't talk, and his finishing move was a top rope splash. Shit, Billy Gunn was a better worker than he was. Like I've said, I don't dislike the guy or the gimmick, but he's being severely overrated here.

He was never great, and certainly wasn't on the level of the guys battlecat rattled off, but I recall really enjoying his work in the later stages of his WWE run. He was used mostly as an enhancement talent, and seemed to excel at making other guys look good. Not great, but definitely not Billy Gunn.

It's incredible looking at the shift from the "old guard" to the recent acquisitions. Guys like Cena, Orton, Big Show, Mark Henry, etc. have some kind of look or character trait that made them desirable to the WWE. Guys like Bryan, Harper, Zayn, Neville, Ambrose, Rollins, etc. cut their teeth in promotions where "workrate = buys". The in-ring product moving forward is going to be SO GOOD. This is like a 2000s super indy roster:

-Bryan Danielson
-Brodie Lee
-Jon Moxley
-Claudio Castagnoli
-Tyler Black
-PAC
-El Generico
-Kevin Steen
-Prince Devitt
-KENTA
-Samuray del Sol
-Sterling James Keenan
-Mascarita Dorada

... and Drake Younger as a fucking referee.

[907]

You guys see AJ Styles broke Yoshi Tatsu's neck with the Styles Clash? That's the fourth person it's happened to now, dude really needs to stop using it. It doesn't even look that good!

[tehgiftofgab]

i guess they do it outta instinct but every time it gets botched its because the other guy tucks his head

[hustler]

You guys see AJ Styles broke Yoshi Tatsu's neck with the Styles Clash? That's the fourth person it's happened to now, dude really needs to stop using it. It doesn't even look that good!

its a dope finisher and everyone who broke their necks it was their own fault for not positioning their head properly.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

I can't say one way or another whether Styles should stop using it. The injuries have all been recent (4 in the past year, as opposed to completely without incident for 13 year prior) so I wonder if he just became so used to doing it in a TNA ring, or with guys who were accustomed to taking it. While, yes, it's technically the opponent's (for lack of a better term) "fault" for the injuries, these are guys who've never taken the move before and, after a 20-30 minute match, have to remember that the ONLY safe way to take it is to completely defy muscle-memory and years of experience by pulling your head back. It's my understanding that there's no other move in wrestling, especially from that position, that require such a movement. Even Cesaro's neutralizer or Lashley's dominator, despite being from a similar position, still require the tuck of the chin.

So, I can see both sides of the argument. Personally, I think Styles' calf-killer is one of the best looking submission moves in years and, given his Bullet Club character, fits his current persona perfectly.

I like seeing the Styles Clash as much as anyone, but I'd be fine if he retired it. I also think all diving headbutts, without exception, should be banned at this point.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Also, c'mon, Val Venis was fun. He also had the greatest titantron ever made.

[hustler]

whats happened to people who did diving headbutts? concussions and shit?

[hustler]

val venis finisher wasnt "just" a top rope splash, it was a pelvic thrust top rope splash, i believe they called it the money shot?
its like saying hogans atomic leg drop was "just" a leg drop or the peoples elbow was "just" an elbow drop.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

whats happened to people who did diving headbutts? concussions and shit?

Concussions and neck problems. Not just the instant injuries, but rather longstanding problems that build up over time and take much longer to heal from. There's Benoit, of course, but Mysterio, Bryan, etc. Just given what we know now, diving headfirst without protecting your head just makes me uneasy. Seeing it in 2014 makes me uneasy. Same goes for blood.

[tehgiftofgab]

Bull (i forget his last name) in nxt does the flying head butt as his finisher every match

[hustler]

im not worried about headbutts. these guys get dropped on their heads all match long, i dont feel like a flying headbutt is gona increase head trauma damage compared to normal everyday wear and tear from the ring. theres very minimal contact when the flying headbutt is performed correctly. when you do that move you are being very careful to NOT hit your head hard on anything, so you are bracing yourself and preparing your body and head for the impact, benoit didnt go full benoit cuz of flying headbutts.

[BigCat8]

I was going to bring up the topic of the Styles Clash. To me, it's never been a dangerous move. It's very simple, and IWS wrestler Arsenal said it in less pleasant terms on reddit: you NEVER tuck your chin on a face bump.

A lot of dangerous things happen in a match, and a lot of them are out of the wrestlers' control... but this one is not. Don't tuck your chin, and AJ's knees will take the brunt of it. If dudes could figure it out in Wildside in 01, Yoshi Tatsu, Lionheart, and Roderick Strong can figure it out in 2014.

[hustler]

I was going to bring up the topic of the Styles Clash. To me, it's never been a dangerous move. It's very simple, and IWS wrestler Arsenal said it in less pleasant terms on reddit: you NEVER tuck your chin on a face bump.

A lot of dangerous things happen in a match, and a lot of them are out of the wrestlers' control... but this one is not. Don't tuck your chin, and AJ's knees will take the brunt of it. If dudes could figure it out in Wildside in 01, Yoshi Tatsu, Lionheart, and Roderick Strong can figure it out in 2014.

so now that hes broken like 4 dudes necks with it, do you think it would be in bad taste for him to incorporate that into his in ring persona? like...in promos and shit, saying things like "im gona break your FREAKIN' neck" #NOANGLE (holy triple entendre can u guess em all?)

apparently after he broke lionhearts neck, as he was leaving the ring he said to the crowd: "cashin checks and breakin necks"

[battlecatmeowstab212]

I was going to bring up the topic of the Styles Clash. To me, it's never been a dangerous move. It's very simple, and IWS wrestler Arsenal said it in less pleasant terms on reddit: you NEVER tuck your chin on a face bump.

A lot of dangerous things happen in a match, and a lot of them are out of the wrestlers' control... but this one is not. Don't tuck your chin, and AJ's knees will take the brunt of it. If dudes could figure it out in Wildside in 01, Yoshi Tatsu, Lionheart, and Roderick Strong can figure it out in 2014.

so now that hes broken like 4 dudes necks with it, do you think it would be in bad taste for him to incorporate that into his in ring persona? like...in promos and shit, saying things like "im gona break your FREAKIN' neck" #NOANGLE (holy triple entendre can u guess em all?)

apparently after he broke lionhearts neck, as he was leaving the ring he said to the crowd: "cashin checks and breakin necks"

I don't think it would be in bad taste, I think it would be tasteless, which is worse. While fake-injury angles served a purpose in 80s NWA when you had to present a believable fight, 80s WCCW when you had to present a believable heinous attack and 90s ECW when you had to present a suspension of your own suspension of disbelief.

In a post-Russo world, bragging about giving someone a real injury when we're all in on the theatrics that you aren't really hurting someone doesn't really work. Not saying it could never work again, but after so much overkill of things like this late-90s/early 2000s, I think it's best to leave that dog sleeping.

[907]

You guys see AJ Styles broke Yoshi Tatsu's neck with the Styles Clash? That's the fourth person it's happened to now, dude really needs to stop using it. It doesn't even look that good!

its a dope finisher and everyone who broke their necks it was their own fault for not positioning their head properly.

To each their own, but I really don't think it's that good looking of a finisher, even through a table. The setup is conviluted, and requires way too much setup on the part of whoever is taking it. It definitely doesn't look good enough to continue doing it after almost killing four people.

You know how many times Owen did a piledriver after damn near killing Austin? None.

[907]

Also, c'mon, Val Venis was fun. He also had the greatest titantron ever made.

Fun, yes. Good on the mic, or in the ring? Nah.

[907]

Bull (i forget his last name) in nxt does the flying head butt as his finisher every match

Dempsey, and he fucking sucks. No way he sticks around for long once Steen shows up, he's basically playing a generic version of him already.