Official European Football 2010/2011 Thread

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:31 pm

I think we will see many twitter-controversies this year

Ryan Babel is facing the possibility of disciplinary action from the Football Association after responding to Liverpool's 1-0 defeat at Old Trafford by posting a mocked-up photo on his Twitter site of the referee Howard Webb wearing a Manchester United shirt.

Webb had incensed Liverpool by awarding a first-minute penalty when Dimitar Berbatov went to ground after a slight touch from Daniel Agger and then sending off Steven Gerrard for a dangerous challenge on Michael Carrick.

Kenny Dalglish, returning as Liverpool manager, called the penalty "a joke" and Babel posted the picture of Webb with the message: "And they call him one of the best referees? That's a joke. SMH."

"SMH" is the abbreviation for "shaking my head" and Babel's attack will almost certainly lead to the FA intervening on the basis that he is alleging impartiality on the part of the man who refereed the World Cup final and was made an MBE in the Queen's New Year's honours list. An FA spokesman has confirmed they are aware of the incident and are looking into it.

Dalglish's son, Paul, also vented his feelings on Twitter, posting a mocked-up picture of Sir Alex Ferguson with his arm around Webb, again in a United shirt.

Dalglish junior wrote: "Howard Webb MBE. Manc of the Busby Era. I am not normally bitter, as you know, but it is different rules against them." In a separate tweet, he added: "Fergie has his puppet Howard Webb on a piece of string."

Y@k Bollocks · Post by **Y@k Bollocks** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:35 pm

Glen Johnson had a pop at Paul Merson about his drink problem on Twitter.

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:40 pm

And Ryan is Babeling.

Check this as well

http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/dir ... sow-303890

Req · Post by **Req** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:34 pm

so to summarize, it's basically 2 players who have been even less than mediocre this year playing for a shit team?

oh and they've both been ridiculously overrated throughout their craptastic careers? They both represent everything that's bad about that club, this bizarre sense of entitlement with fuck all to show for it.

Merson would shit on Johnson something shocking. lol@"was average." He wasn't too average when he was scoring 30 goals across 2 seasons pushing Arsenal to 2 titles over your team.

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:20 pm

The Gerrard red card I can at least accept because it was late, and a dangerous, both feet, studs showing challenge, but the penalty...moreover the DIVE was just disgraceful. Howard Webb should be ashamed.

The tradition of ManU getting penalty calls at OT goes on.

dirtee · Post by **dirtee** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:05 am

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:52 am

I am so happy Liverpool paid eighteen fucking million for Ryan Babel, a player who was never really convincing at Ajax. I mean, he did well for us, but eighteen million? Thanks Rafa!

Edit: Euro's, that is. Don't really know how that translated to pounds back in '06 or whatever year he was transferred.

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:12 am

Is it crazy to suggest that Ronaldo is better than Messi? They both score a goal per game on average and rack up a fair bit of assists, Ronaldo really improved his teamplay at Madrid it seems and hes fantastic in the air and stopped the needless trickery, I think that gives him the edge. He also seems more like a leader. Maybe it's just because I watch more of Ronaldo but I think he is better. It could be argues that Messi is better in big games though, stats suggest they are both VERY consistent either way.

Edit: Messi won the Ballon D'Or, in case you didn't hear, and that got me thinking.

Wenger won Coach of the Decade, it's a toss-up between him and Fergie for me and that's if you don't consider what means they've had to work with http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... years.html Mourinho is somewhere below that level I think and his Madrid team is the only one that isn't boring to watch.

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:00 am

Comedy Quaddafi wrote:Is it crazy to suggest that Ronaldo is better than Messi? They both score a goal per game on average and rack up a fair bit of assists, Ronaldo really improved his teamplay at Madrid it seems and hes fantastic in the air and stopped the needless trickery, I think that gives him the edge. He also seems more like a leader. Maybe it's just because I watch more of Ronaldo but I think he is better. It could be argues that Messi is better in big games though, stats suggest they are both VERY consistent either way.

It's a toss-up, IMO. Messi was great in '10 (not the best in the world though. He's currently the most exciting player to see in action. Ronaldo was great last year as well, and might be just as effective. Ronaldo is more well rounded though, he's incredible with his head and physically he has more to offer. Messi is just so agile, it gives him a huge advantage over nearly every defender.

Comedy Quaddafi wrote:Edit: Messi won the Ballon D'Or, in case you didn't hear, and that got me thinking.

I'm still pissed it wasn't Xavi, a player who I regard to be the best since Zidane retired (and I consider Zidane to be a top 10, top 15 player of all time). Xavi is instrumental in every team he plays in; both Barcelona and Spain. Statistically, Xavi is God. He has the most passes overall and compared to other esteemed players on his position, the highest pass completion rate. It's a thing of beauty to see him rack up 110+ passes a game in the champions league, with a completion rate of 90-98%. And no, I'm not pulling these statistics out of my ass, there's an excellent App for iPhone instrumental for analyzing football. His passes completed in the final third of the pitch is amazing as well.

Messi, who is widely regarded to be the best player in the world, couldn't do shit with no playmaker like Xavi to back him up while playing for Argentina. Granted, this also has to do with Maradona's incompetence, but still.

After Xavi, Sneijder had an incredible year, winning the triple and almost singlehandedly shooting the Dutch to the WC finals. He's ambidextrous and extremely dangerous in the final third, with both passes and shots on goal. Granted, he isn't as decisive in 2010/2011 as he was last year, and that brings me to my last point.

Comedy Quaddafi wrote:Wenger won Coach of the Decade, it's a toss-up between him and Fergie for me and that's if you don't consider what means they've had to work with http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... years.html Mourinho is somewhere below that level I think and his Madrid team is the only one that isn't boring to watch.

IMO, Mourinho is by far the best coach in the world. He made Porto win the UEFA cup and the Champions League, which is a tremendous achievement in itself, he won the EPL in his time as manager of Chelsea, and last year the triple in Italy with Inter. Tactically, Mourinho has no-one on his level. His teams might not be the most spectacular to watch, but there's no argument to be made against his clame as the best coach in the world. The Inter versus Barcelona games last year prove his superiority.

So, to summarize:

IMO, the best players in the world last year:

1. Xavi
2. Sneijder
3. Messi

Best trainer last year:

1. Mourinho
2. ??
3. the rest

Best trainers of the decade:

1. Mourinho
2. Hiddink (he did a great job at PSV, South Korea, Australia, Chelsea and Russia, I think he's underrated. He's a good tactician, but his main feat is always getting the best out of his players)
3. Can't think of one right now.

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:45 am

We didn't even know who Mourinho was before Porto won that CL the same way Greece won the Euros. He did win the UEFA before that though. Then he came to Chelsea with a blank check and built a great team admittedly. He inherited an Inter which was completely dominant already, except for CL of course and now he has it all to prove at Madrid where he was guaranteed getting a top 2 spot to begin with. I think it has to be Fergie or Wenger who have had a top team in 10 years winning a lot without having any downright embarassing seasons. It's probably a whole lot harder to maintain a club for 10 years and plan entire generation-shifts than it is to come in at a topclub and make it a bit better and leave. I realize Mourinho helped make Chelsea who they are but I doubt he even had a big say in who they brought in and other aspects of the club.

Here are the cold facts of trophies

Fergie
EPL: 5
FA: 1
CL: 1

Wenger
EPL: 3
FA: 1

Hosay
Portugese League: 2
Portugese Cup: 1
EPL: 2
FA: 1
Scudetto: 2
Italian Cup: 1
UEFA: 1
CL: 2

Can't argue you can make a great case for Mourinho. The makers of the list tallied the number of nominations for manager of the year and Wenger was in top contention every year so he won their award.

I agree that Xavi should have won this year. Ronaldo and Messi are just more comparable and will dominate for years to come.

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:29 am

Comedy Quaddafi wrote:We didn't even know who Mourinho was before Porto won that CL the same way Greece won the Euros. He did win the UEFA before that though. Then he came to Chelsea with a blank check and built a great team admittedly. He inherited an Inter which was completely dominant already, except for CL of course and now he has it all to prove at Madrid where he was guaranteed getting a top 2 spot to begin with. I think it has to be Fergie or Wenger who have had a top team in 10 years winning a lot without having any downright embarassing seasons. It's probably a whole lot harder to maintain a club for 10 years and plan entire generation-shifts than it is to come in at a topclub and make it a bit better and leave. I realize Mourinho helped make Chelsea who they are but I doubt he even had a big say in who they brought in and other aspects of the club.

Of course, you can flip this around as well. Wenger and Fergie had the ability to compose the team of their liking, whereas Mourinho inherited a team that was not his first choice. He did turn Inter around though, because out of Mourinho's starting 11, 6 players were enjoying their first season at the club (Sneijder, Eto'o, Lucio, Thiago Motta, Pandev and Milito). Again, impressive, because it usually takes at least one season for a relatively new team to start performing.

Last season he did IMO two remarkable things, outside of outsmarting the competition:

1. The two games against Barcelona proved his tactical superiority.
2. He fielded Eto'o as an right winger, which was later adapted by Spain, who proceded to field Villa as an left winger in the WC.

Don't forget it has been ages since Arsenal won the EPL (not trying to hurt feelings here, but it has!). Fergie should indeed be lauded as one of the greatest coaches ever because of Man U's consistancy, but I still would argue Mourinho is his superior.

Req · Post by **Req** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:29 pm

Yohan wrote: but I still would argue Mourinho is his superior.

Fergie beat him over 2 legs the last time they played, so he wins

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:09 pm

Req wrote:
Yohan wrote: but I still would argue Mourinho is his superior.
Fergie beat him over 2 legs the last time they played, so he wins

I call bias

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:10 pm

Oh, by the way, Eljero Elia (HSV player) is back on Twitter. He's as dumb as a brick. Last time he was on twitter, he pulled a Babel and fucked up. How long before the same thing happens to him again?

Stoned Starks · Post by **Stoned Starks** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:23 pm

Two things:

1. Mourinho wasn't the first to play Eto'o in a wide role. Pep played him there on occasion, including in the CL final against Man-U, with Messi playing the false-9 he has recently been featured in. Eto'o's goal in that game, not coincidentally, came from that position as he cut back inside and poked it into the net.

2. Messi's performance this summer with Argentina has been pointed to by many as evidence that without Xaviesta Messi isn't the same player; that he is somehow overly reliant on them to supply the lethal pass. While this isn't a particularly untrue statement there a few things to consider.

For one, due to Maradona's managerial shortcomings, both in his squad selection and tactical deficiencies, Messi was played in a creative mid-fielder role where he was asked to provide the attacking impetus. Despite the relative unfamiliarity of this role, Messi still was integral in a squad that scored 10 times in 4 games before running into arguably the second best team of the tournament, Germany. If you go back and watch the Argentina games Messi was the best player for that team, constantly running from deep before either playing a probing pass, getting hacked down for a free-kick, or getting a shot off. While he only had one assist and no goals, its hard to imagine there was ever an unluckier player: he forced a number of great saves and hit the post a few times.
In terms of the Germany game, Messi was hardly to blame. The Argentine midfield and attack was constantly outnumbered due to Maradona's insistence on a rigid backline that prevented the fullbacks from helping out. Conversely, none of the attacking trio of Messi, Higuain or Tevez were asked to track the German fullbacks, or at least provide them with something to think about, and Lahm, in particular, killed Argentina because of this. What this meant was that when Argentina attacked it was essentially 5 v. 7 or 8, and when Germany attacked it was 7 or 8 v. 7 as you can see here: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/07/03/ ... nd-better/

The point is: while it is routine these days to criticize Messi for an over-reliance on Xavi and Iniesta, the use of the World Cup as an example is more problematic than descriptive. Because of Argentina's lack of a Xavi or Iniesta it was Messi who was forced to play that link-up role, and despite the lack of gaudy statistics, he did an admirable job with what he was given. People will always look for him to score goals, but if you look at what he was asked to do that was hardly his top priority.

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:20 pm

I'd still take Ronaldo over Messi on pure talent, he is the more complete footballer, stronger weak foot, stronger physically, better in the air, better at free kicks, but until Madrid start collecting trophies CR7 will continue to find himself behind the pack when these end of the year awards roll around.

I would have picked Xavi, but Messi was definitely a deserving recipient.

Stoned Starks · Post by **Stoned Starks** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:41 am

I would have picked Xavi too. Just don't think Messi's WC was as near as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be.

Also, its funny that the pro-Ronaldo (anti-Messi GOAT-argument) crowd coincided perfectly with this article (from one of the best blogs out):

http://www.runofplay.com/2011/01/10/ronaldo-at-madrid/

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:07 am

Stoned Starks wrote:Two things:

1. Mourinho wasn't the first to play Eto'o in a wide role. Pep played him there on occasion, including in the CL final against Man-U, with Messi playing the false-9 he has recently been featured in. Eto'o's goal in that game, not coincidentally, came from that position as he cut back inside and poked it into the net.

Agreed, but as you said it yourself, he played there on occasion. As far as I know, Mourinho played him there nearly every single game, with maximum effect. Also, the way Eto'o defended as a right winger against Barcelona impressed me. I don't think he ever dropped as deep when he played for Barcelona.

Stoned Starks wrote:2. Messi's performance this summer with Argentina has been pointed to by many as evidence that without Xaviesta Messi isn't the same player; that he is somehow overly reliant on them to supply the lethal pass. While this isn't a particularly untrue statement there a few things to consider.

For one, due to Maradona's managerial shortcomings, both in his squad selection and tactical deficiencies, Messi was played in a creative mid-fielder role where he was asked to provide the attacking impetus. Despite the relative unfamiliarity of this role, Messi still was integral in a squad that scored 10 times in 4 games before running into arguably the second best team of the tournament, Germany. If you go back and watch the Argentina games Messi was the best player for that team, constantly running from deep before either playing a probing pass, getting hacked down for a free-kick, or getting a shot off. While he only had one assist and no goals, its hard to imagine there was ever an unluckier player: he forced a number of great saves and hit the post a few times.
In terms of the Germany game, Messi was hardly to blame. The Argentine midfield and attack was constantly outnumbered due to Maradona's insistence on a rigid backline that prevented the fullbacks from helping out. Conversely, none of the attacking trio of Messi, Higuain or Tevez were asked to track the German fullbacks, or at least provide them with something to think about, and Lahm, in particular, killed Argentina because of this. What this meant was that when Argentina attacked it was essentially 5 v. 7 or 8, and when Germany attacked it was 7 or 8 v. 7 as you can see here: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/07/03/ ... nd-better/

The point is: while it is routine these days to criticize Messi for an over-reliance on Xavi and Iniesta, the use of the World Cup as an example is more problematic than descriptive. Because of Argentina's lack of a Xavi or Iniesta it was Messi who was forced to play that link-up role, and despite the lack of gaudy statistics, he did an admirable job with what he was given. People will always look for him to score goals, but if you look at what he was asked to do that was hardly his top priority.

Agreed, and again I have a few comments on this as well. I also pointed out earlier that mainly because of Maradona's incompetence Argentina didn't live up to their full potential. Besides that, Argentina lacks a playmaker, plain and simple, forcing Messi in that role. And even though his tournament wasn't that bad per se, he did show he could not carry Argentina all by himself. Maybe this is a lot to ask from a player so young, but this showed me that Messi is a tad overrated (He's still the most exciting player to watch in action and one of the very best of the world, just not THE best).

While I also think Iniesta is a bit overrated, (also a very skilled player, but not top three of last year), it is Xavi who has been phenomenal this year. I like to compare the Xavi / Messi tandem to a weapon: Xavi is the brain of the operation, whereas Messi is the gun. Take away one, and the other becomes not nearly as effective. Together they are deadly. This is an oversimplified version of reality, but IMO an effective metaphor. But when you factor in the fact that Xavi did win the WC and Messi didn't; that's a pretty convincing argument in favor of Xavi.

Also, I'm not arguing against Messi as one of the top players of last year, I'm just arguing in favor of Xavi being the best and most deserving of the title. After all, it was him and not Messi who won the World Cup in combination with La Liga. And because of Sneijders succesfull year, I'd personally also pick him over Messi.

Also, Germany was overrated last WC. I don't think they were better than Spain, and they would've struggled against the Dutch and Brazil, two very tough and physical teams who are solid defensively. Germany had insane luck with their opponents, facing Ghana (not a very good team), Serbia (Germany lost against a physical and defensive team) and Australia (boy, did they suck!), then England who were total shit as well (Germany needed an all out offensive England to counter them with

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:08 am

By the way, it's also comical to see the bad press around the recent award shows.

RacquetballGangsta · Post by **RacquetballGangsta** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:41 am

if xavi was gonna win it, he shouldve won it the year spain won the euros, 06. he's still gangsta as fuck, but instead of playing at an A++ level last year he was more like A or A-. Iniesta shouldve won it, id say had he not been injured for like half the year.

Messi is way fuckin better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo is, as I saw someone correctly point out recently, the Lebron James of soccer..he's big and fast, physically no one that's ever played can touch him, but that doesnt mean he lacks technique or skill. he has two great feet, great header of the ball, but

@ him being "more of a leader" than messi. he doesnt really show up consistently in big games, messi does. ronaldo is better than messi on fks, but if u saw the one messi hit in Barca's last match, you might have to argue he just doesnt have automatic dibs on as many free kicks. none of you compartmentalizing comparisons mentions that messi is way more tactically flexible, will also run back and tackle, never gives up, hardly ever dives, hardly ever gets dispossessed, carded, throws tantrums, brings attention to himself, and is one of the best passers on the planet, something he really doesnt get credit for. his through passes are just as sublime as xavi and iniesta's at times. ronaldo aint doin that shit. his game, as great as it is, lacks subtlety.

Palermo is great to watch. Ilicic came out of nowhere, but that fool is dope. If they'd held on to Cavani it woulda been crazy.

dirtee · Post by **dirtee** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:32 am

RacquetballGangsta wrote: Palermo is great to watch. Ilicic came out of nowhere, but that fool is dope. If they'd held on to Cavani it woulda been crazy.

yeah, ilicic will do big things in his career. he's only 22 years old. in this season he managed a jump from slovenian 2nd league to become one of the star players in italy. if he can keep his head in the right place, there's no limit to what he can do.

the technical ability of palermos offensive triangle (pastore-ilicic-miccoli) is just unbelievable. if they just could keep this team for a season or two (which is unlikely to happen), they would contest inter and milan for the top spots in Serie A.

eternalreflection · Post by **eternalreflection** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:13 am

Messi is way fuckin better than Ronaldo. Ronaldo is, as I saw someone correctly point out recently, the Lebron James of soccer

this doesn't really work as an analogy since Lebron is far and away the best basketball player in the world

boycottamericanwomen · Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:01 pm

sorry i meant "naw dawg"

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:23 pm

Today and yesterdays Copa Del Rey results pretty much guarantee Barca V Real will face off in the next round of competition.

Stoned Starks · Post by **Stoned Starks** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:04 am

Yeah, it was unfortunate to see Madrid score that final goal. Not that it wouldn't be fun to see a Barcelona-Madrid final, but I have a soft-spot for Kun and Forlan: it pains me to see such talented players on such an inconsistent team. They could still do it if they win 2-0 at home but that is highly unlikely with the way Madrid is playing. I think they should continue with the 4-6-0; keep Benzema on the bench and start Kaka instead. As a Barcelona fan that lineup scares me more than one with Karim or Klose (WTF?).

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:30 am

Yeah, Karim has sucked this year. *edit 1 goals in 17 apps in La Liga is laughably bad.

The 3rd goal was very lucky with the deflection, almost like a Fifa (videogame) goal where you just take a bigger player dribble right into a defender and the ball breaks your way, but Madrid were bossing the game the whole second half. I love me some Ozil. Have to give it to Jose, he pulled all the tricks, played every card he had, I hate when a manager stands on the sidelines idle as he hopes his starting 11 will pull a result.

Kun, I'm sure of it, will actually be sold for a hefty fee at some point, I'm just hoping he doesn't go to Chelsea as has been rumored. Forlan is so old that the asking price from AM has scared off many suitors. Both are world class strikers.

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:47 am

I don't see where Forlan would go either, hard to see any offers from teams much better than AM and hes definitely not in a hurry to go back to England. Aguero will eventually go to Inter or Chelsea I think, with Citeh as the wildcard-option if none of the other two offer a solid fee.

"I hate when a manager stands on the sidelines idle as he hopes his starting 11 will pull a result." - subtle Wenger diss.

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:57 am

never meant as a Wenger diss, but it does apply. Honestly tho, my biggest criticism of Wenger is his stubbornness in the transfer market to make the moves that the Gunners so obviously need, a gk, players who play with steel, and experienced players who know how to win.

Meant it more as a criticism of a lot Pool games I've seen, where clearly there needs to be a change of some sort, even just to shake things up or get some fresh legs on the pitch, or ... and I know this is a marvel idea, to give some young guys some experience ... and it just never happens.

stupidregister · Post by **stupidregister** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:43 pm

@ Dzeko + Tevez.

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:41 pm

Felt bad for WHU. The players didn't look like they wanted to be on the pitch, Grant looks like he hasn't slept for a year, the owners looked like they wanted to cry, the fans were either sleeping or going home early or booing.

VideoKilledThe wrote::Honestly tho, my biggest criticism of Wenger is his stubbornness in the transfer market to make the moves that the Gunners so obviously need, a gk, players who play with steel, and experienced players who know how to win.

I disagree and I'll try to be brief.
GK: Sneezy and Fabianski were meant to compete for first spot this season and both have been more or less excellent. I was angry in the summer but now Arsenal have two good goalkeepers who deserve a chance.
Steel: Vermealen and Koscielny are both great tacklers who love to come for the ball and fight off the attacker, Djorou is a different kind and hes the type who can contain Drogba with his physique, Sagna is more machine than man and tough as nails - he didn't even flinch when Bowyer stamped him on the thigh and don't forget how he made Zabalete cower. Clichy doesn't have much steel but not many fb's do. In midfield Wilshere is a bit like Terry, small guy who loves to fight and makes up for puniness by sheer determination. Song can do technical freekicks and compete for headers, a class dm when he sticks to his job. Up front there's Chamakh and Bendtner to put in when it's not possible to play on the ground. I would like another defensive-minded mid instead of Denilson who is a La Liga player.
Experience: All of Arsenals players, with a few exceptions, are highly experienced for their age. As far as knowing how to win, there's few of the players who have won a lot, some have with former clubs and some have with their NTs. That has something to do with Wengers generation-shift and philosophy of having a team that grew up together and know each other's play inside-out, look at how Fabregas, RVP, Nasri and Walcott are combining, that's exacly what makes Arsenal's attack click excellently. You also have to consider that Wenger couldn't buy a team expensively like his peers, or renew big contracts of fading stars, because of the new stad