Pound For Pound The Best Hip-Hop Group of All-Time

blessingindisguise · Post by **blessingindisguise** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:25 pm

I voted wu tang but should have voted Public enemy. Their influence and being respected range from rockers like Nine inch nails, Rage against the machine, and Kurt cobain to El-p to being respected by other genres. Plus their first 5 albums are stellar.

Geto boys deserve alot more credit too. I know this is an East coast site but their early material inspired alot of heads in the South and West. If u factor in their solo albums they could give wu tang a run for their money. Not in quantity but quality.

I can't believe Phila dissed run d.m.c. so snidely and perferred NWA second album that was dissed in T.r.o.y. for being cartoonish for the most part.

De la soul will have the last laugh once they drop those 2 or 3 albums Posdnous has in the works or already made. Peace to them torching big willy shit on stakes is high. "i got some questions about your life if u so ready to die" "only italians u know is Icees"

What hurts tribe so much is the fact "the love movement" wasn't that great and they lacked more b-sides and unreleased material imo.

The roots "do you want more", "things fall apart", "illadelph halflife" are all classic. Fuck "Organix" they were just honing their style in Europe and clubs. It's a decent template. I didn't really feel Game theory" but Questlove is so underrated it hurts. When he has a vision he goes for it and nails it.

step one · Post by **step one** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:27 pm

Escobar305 wrote:
Also Outkast took more chances and covered more ground than the majority of the groups on the list which should be commended.

Did they really? Like what exactly? Please enlighten us
(Wearing fucking ridiculous clothes and living out your 'Purple Rain' fantasies to MTV friendly sing-a-longs doesnt count by the way)

Escobar305 · Post by **Escobar305** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:32 pm

step one wrote:
Escobar305 wrote:
Also Outkast took more chances and covered more ground than the majority of the groups on the list which should be commended.
Did they really? Like what exactly? Please enlighten us
(Wearing fucking ridiculous clothes and living out your 'Purple Rain' fantasies to MTV friendly sing-a-longs doesnt count by the way)

From album to album they changed they're sound, yet for the most part was great. Each album has a different/unique sound.

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:35 pm

Public Enemy

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:44 pm

Tommy Bunz wrote:If Wu's solos don't count then the only reasonable answer is ATCQ

They don't. Why would they? Do Paul McCartney projects count towards Beatles? Do Ice Cube's solo work count towards NWA? Why do people always go this route. A group is a group and a solo is a solo.

We're not counting Q-Tip albums. We're not counting Chuck D albums. We're not counting Jazzmatazz. Only people (btw mostly younger and started listening to hiphop in the late 90s) who vote Wu-Tang make this argument because without it

doesn't really stand a chance.

Yes · Post by **Yes** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:54 pm

Yes wrote:I disagree with not allowing the solo work with Wu Tang, pretty much every album in their classic time period (93-97) had several if not all the members on the album. Most of the best songs on the solo albums were basically group songs: Winter Warz, 4th Chamber, Gullotines, Criminology, Ice Cream etc

jazztomovethatass · Post by **jazztomovethatass** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:08 pm

EMCEE DARTH MALEK · Post by **EMCEE DARTH MALEK** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:10 pm

you should count the wu solos like cuban lynx, ironman, liquid swords because they're exec produced by RZA plus almost exclusively his beats, and they heavily feature vocals by other wu members. it's arbitrary if you discount these just because it doesn't say wu tang on the cover. if q-tip had a self produced 'solo' that came out in the mid 90s with phife appearing on two thirds of the tracks i'd count that as a tribe album too.

Mindbender Futurama · Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:31 pm

changed not only the rap game, but the entire music industry in so many ways a university study needs to be done on it.

Public Enemy was the only other group to really create a paradigm beyond the average idea of a rap group. Flav with Chuck and the S1W's and Terminator X's glasses was some next shit way beyond what came next. Set sound standards that still haven't been surpassed, and made the template for militant mindstate 80's music, taking everyone forward whether they liked PE or not. 'Fear of a Black Planet' and 'Nation of Millions' were sonic revolutions like few others.

ATCQ was musically the heart and pulse of a generation of people, and Q-Tip was the Golden Boy of Hip Hop, unconsciously. If Mos Def could stop thinking about the fame and the downside of it all, he'd be the heir apparent. Now, there's nothing like ATCQ, and hip hop is worse for it. Tip and Phife are one of the best 1-2 rap combos of all time, just off natural vibe.

The Roots will never be loved by more people if Black Thought doesn't stop being so introverted. They are all time greats though.

peace to Mobb Deep. Prodigy is one of the true Kings of NYC, forever, in a way that Jay-Z isn't. :ILLUMINATI:

Jaz · Post by **Jaz** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:44 pm

A Tribe Called Quest
De La Soul
Gang Starr
Wu-Tang Clan
EPMD
Boogie Down Productions
Public Enemy

But I can't decide yet, this is hard.

Freezy Pazzy · Post by **Freezy Pazzy** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:20 am

It was a tough choice, but I gave my voice to NWA.
They're not necessarily my favorite off the bunch, but I think even though they stopped making music as a band in 91, their influence can still be felt in today's music.

And shit, I'd love to get a third NWA LP instead of Detox, no doubt.

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:36 am

Philaflava wrote:Only people (btw mostly younger and started listening to hiphop in the late 90s) who vote Wu-Tang make this argument because without it doesn't really stand a chance.

This is what I was alluding to in my original post. Coming up in the era of the Wu there're very few other options as far as groups go. I knew it'd be a landslide for the Gambinos (btw, the pseudo mafia era they ushered in is among the most annoying times in rap history).

I didn't want to call out the

fans cuz they seem so much more fiercely attached to the era. People who don't get De La don't bug me at all, I just feel bad that they're missing out on such an amazing contribution...

dubs · Post by **dubs** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:51 am

I went with

. To me they were the most original, while being consistently dope. Is anyone gonna argue 36 chambers is not one of the best albums ever? doubt it.

dubs · Post by **dubs** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:52 am

im now gonna read the thread.

dubs · Post by **dubs** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:04 am

dubs wrote:I went with . To me they were the most original, while being consistently dope. Is anyone gonna argue 36 chambers is not one of the best albums ever? doubt it.

Ok. After thinking some more, Iron flag is pretty lackluster. Couple good joints, the rest i could live without.

Escobar305 wrote: Wutang as a group doesn't have as many classics as Outkast. I'd say Kast has 2 or 3 classics, Wutang (as a group) only 1.

I don't agree. I think Forever is pretty great, especially for a double album. The W is solid, but not quite as good as either previous group album. After that i agree they lost it a lilttle bit.

Sticking with The Wu.

battlecatmeowstab212 · Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:09 am

Look, I love Outkast to death and have their first three albums just about memorized. I'm pushing Stan-territory with them BUT if we're factoring in consistency I'd wager NOT A SINGLE OTHER GROUP NOMINATED has made an album as IRREDEEMABLY AWFUL as "Idlewild."

And if we're not including solos then why is Wu-Tang even up there? I understand your logic, but voters note that if we WERE including solos then the Juice Crew would runaway with this.

I haven't voted yet. Still thinking.

battlecatmeowstab212 · Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:13 am

De La I think is suffering here from having the worst mastered catalog of the bunch. Every other act has had their work either come out flawless for the CD market or painstakingly remastered for optimal quality. If those masters ever get cleaned, it will really up their legacy.

sean · Post by **sean** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:27 am

i voted wu before i realized that we weren't supposed to count their solo joints.

fml.

if i could take my vote back, i would give it to tribe.

i agree with battlechazmeowstab about de la.
i disagree with gloss about the bdp albums, i think there are 4 very good albums.

but yeah, tribe should take this poll for the way they used the deejay-live-drop on low end theory.
and for the way they used the high hat on low end theory.
everyone bit that shit.

Dap · Post by **Dap** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:42 am

Dmista wrote: u-Tang because of the longevity the music has had and the brilliance of some of the projects from the MCs in the whole camp.

starks · Post by **starks** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:46 am

quest

Jonny · Post by **Jonny** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:58 am

ATCQ abd on top of that native tongues >>>>>> wu, bootcamp, juice crew, project blowed, legends, hiero or any other crew you name.

vermillion · Post by **vermillion** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:53 am

Outkast is in my opinion. As a group they released someof the best hip-hop records ever. I'm basing my vte off of teir discography verses the rest. I can understand why people would vote for most of these groups,but Outkast has put out the best albums. Since people bring up Tribe having 3 classic or near classic albums, the same can be said with Outkast. Their first 3 are all great in my opinion. The Roots, Tribe, and PE were close seconds..

step one · Post by **step one** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:22 am

[quote="battlecatmeowstab212"]

And if we're not including solos then why is Wu-Tang even up there? I understand your logic, but voters note that if we WERE including solos then the Juice Crew would runaway with this.

I haven't voted yet. Still thinking.[/quotei think the Wu solos have to be taken into account.

as far as the Juice Crew, they werent really a proper group, it was just a group of MCs on the same label using mainly the same producer.

I cant believe Outkast have that many votes.

Rob Sonic · Post by **Rob Sonic** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:52 am

My personal fav is EPMD, but if you say of all time I suppose you have to look at groups who are still at it so it's WU by default, Run DMC is the most important Rap group of all time hands down. PE was just as but Rap had been established as a legitimate Genre by then.

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:12 am

A Tribe Called Quest for reasons already stated by many.

Although not the best group, Brand Nubian could easily be incorporated in this list. But what do I know, :bork:

-4lyfe.

clark bent · Post by **clark bent** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:06 am

1. tribe - three PERFECT albums...something no other aritst (group or otherwise) can claim in hip-hop...the fact that they did this in a three year time frame is amazing...the lack of longevity greatly helps them as well...they didnt hang on for 20 years and put out a slew of average records that tainted their legacy

2. gangstarr - like tribe they have an impressive lack of weak material...the difference and what seprates tribe from most is that gangstarr made a ton of great songs and put them together to make a record...whereas tribe made great ALBUMS...they had a vide and a plan and knew exactly what they wanted to create and then went out and did it...peoples low end and midnight are three totally different and separate entities...you will never be confused about what song is from what album...whereas with gangstarr every once in a while you might have to pause for a second to try and remeber if B.Y.S. is on hard to earn or daily operation

3. de la soul - they are almost 2a. i give gangstarr a slight edge because technically de la didnt produce their own music..that said de la's three best albums are better than every gangstarr album not named step into the arena

4. outkast - a distant fourth...southernplaya is incredibly overrated and everything after aquemini is pretty much terrible...the other two albums are phenominal

5 - 6. wu tang/nwa - only one great album each...granted those two respective albums are incredible but one album doesnt get you on this list...id def put the beatnuts ahead of either of these two

7. epmd - never really had that one epic full length album...but they have so many good songs...really a group where you take their best 15-20 tracks and put them on their own cd...should have never gotten back together

8. mobb deep - great debut not so much after that

9. the roots - meh

10-13 run dmc - geto boys - pe - bdp - for various reasons these groups do nothing for me

step one · Post by **step one** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:19 am

clark bent wrote:1. tribe - three PERFECT albums...something no other aritst (group or otherwise) can claim in hip-hop...the fact that they did this in a three year time frame is amazing...the lack of longevity greatly helps them as well...they didnt hang on for 20 years and put out a slew of average records that tainted their legacy

2. gangstarr - like tribe they have an impressive lack of weak material...the difference and what seprates tribe from most is that gangstarr made a ton of great songs and put them together to make a record...whereas tribe made great ALBUMS...they had a vide and a plan and knew exactly what they wanted to create and then went out and did it...peoples low end and midnight are three totally different and separate entities...you will never be confused about what song is from what album...whereas with gangstarr every once in a while you might have to pause for a second to try and remeber if B.Y.S. is on hard to earn or daily operation

3. de la soul - they are almost 2a. i give gangstarr a slight edge because technically de la didnt produce their own music..that said de la's three best albums are better than every gangstarr album not named step into the arena

4. outkast - a distant fourth...southernplaya is incredibly overrated and everything after aquemini is pretty much terrible...the other two albums are phenominal

5 - 6. wu tang/nwa - only one great album each...granted those two respective albums are incredible but one album doesnt get you on this list...id def put the beatnuts ahead of either of these two

7. epmd - never really had that one epic full length album...but they have so many good songs...really a group where you take their best 15-20 tracks and put them on their own cd...should have never gotten back together

8. mobb deep - great debut not so much after that

9. the roots - meh

pretty much, yeah but...

clark bent wrote: 10-13 run dmc - geto boys - pe - bdp - for various reasons these groups do nothing for me

you're under 30 right?

clark bent · Post by **clark bent** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:31 am

wrong

Galapagos4 · Post by **Galapagos4** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:09 am

it's impossible not to pick NWA because of the influence, on everyone everywhere, and the fact they only dropped 2 real full LPs which were both classic front to back, and spawned some of the best solo shit ever as well. you could argue Wu but there's been so much filler material from the group and the solo artists, not to mention some of the members themselves are weak and would have never been famous with out RZA, Ghost, Meth, Chef etc. I'll argue that Ren could have been a great MC and had hits on his own, though his post NWA material doesn't back that up.... if he had Dre producing him it would have been different...

Icesickle · Post by **Icesickle** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:23 am

I'm a big De La fan, but saying Pos and Dove are far and away better than Q-Tip and Phife (in their prime) is a specious argument.