Official 2008 NFL Draft Thread (W/Best Draft Poll)

[Roy Johnson]

So, the Bears got a WR in the 3rd round. This is what the rotation is looking like:

(1) Marty Booker
(2) Mark Bradley
(3) Earl Bennett

They will also incorporate Devin Hester as a decoy.

Pretty wack, unless Bradley finally breaks out.

[b0mbs_of_death]

How many sacks did the motherfucker give up in his college career, like one?

That's the best value pick in this draft. I don't care what anybody says.

Yeah to Gholston. Kid's all right, the real truth is when he will be stopping Seymour and Wilfork versus Mr. Flint Michigan.

And Dorsey hasn't played a full college schedule in two years. He's got bad knees and a broken leg.

[Julius Seizure]

i'm excited the pats got my boy sean crable from michigan. when i went to the big house last year, i came away saying that he was the perfect olb for the pats 3-4. yesterday i was tellling one of my friends that they shuld get him, and sure enough, they did.

not sure why they wasted a 3rd rounder on a qb, although i hear that a lot of scouts liked this kid from san diego st. like that they swapped out a third this year for a second next. had a feeling they wouldn't use all three 3rd rounders.

l like the steelers draft.

[Julius Seizure]

i'm excited the pats got my boy sean crable from michigan. when i went to the big house last year, i came away saying that he was the perfect olb for the pats 3-4. yesterday i was tellling one of my friends that they shuld get him, and sure enough, they did.

not sure why they wasted a 3rd rounder on a qb, although i hear that a lot of scouts liked this kid from san diego st. like that they swapped out a third this year for a second next. had a feeling they wouldn't use all three 3rd rounders.

l like the steelers draft.

[still illiterate]

That's the best value pick in this draft. I don't care what anybody says.

shit, the dolphins don't even believe that. They had Dorsey rated higher, but had a bigger need at LT.

[Prophecy]

That's the best value pick in this draft. I don't care what anybody says.

shit, the dolphins don't even believe that. They had Dorsey rated higher, but had a bigger need at LT.

Sometimes need overshadows value as was the case with maimi. ROFL at motherfuckers acting like long is a mediocre OT prospect. Can some of the Jake Long isn't that good people please point out the technique flaws that he has? I would really love to see this since im guessing most here are underrating long on what they've heard as opposed to what they have seen or what they actually know about offensive line play and technique.

[Prophecy]

I think if McShay and Kiper we're in the same room during that "draft dual" a fight might have broken out. Dudes we're getting a little heated.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

no, because the way you were doing it was in a assholish way. i'm not suprised cause you are a fucking faggot in your mannerisms on the board anyways.

Well, it's just like you said to me in one of your unbelievably gay private messages: Don't be offended, just be slightly offended.

Don't ever PM me again, btw.

and how the fuck is dorsey a flashy player?

If you watch a highlight reel, it's all sacks. That's the flash that I'm talking about. That Simeon Rice or Julius Peppers type flash. Pretty fucking obvious, Gregg.

There's no doubt that Dorsey is looking like a phenom, but legendary OTs are the cornerstones of a given franchise. They're at the very top of the totem pole.

Does he not have the potential to be a Pace/Ogden/Munoz type?

How many sacks did the motherfucker give up in his college career, like one?

That's the best value pick in this draft. I don't care what anybody says.

lmao @ comparing glenn dorsey to simeon rice and julius peppers because of highlights you've seen on ESPN.

there is so many things wrong with that statement, i do not know where to begin.

you're a brilliant football mind, roy.

you say jake long is a once in a decade tackle prospect. and you know what? i heard that about d-brick and joe thomas as well. and even though they both are pretty good, how many once in a lifetime tackle prospects are going to come out this decade? this is weird to me.

and LMAO @ you bringing up the time i PMed you. like that has anything to do with you comparing Glenn Dorsey with Simeon Rice and Julius Peppers (lol). you probably saved that message, printed it out, and put it on your wall and kiss it before you go to bed everynight, fairy.

[ThaJim2]

That's the best value pick in this draft. I don't care what anybody says.

shit, the dolphins don't even believe that. They had Dorsey rated higher, but had a bigger need at LT.

Sometimes need overshadows value as was the case with maimi. ROFL at motherfuckers acting like long is a mediocre OT prospect. Can some of the Jake Long isn't that good people please point out the technique flaws that he has? I would really love to see this since im guessing most here are underrating long on what they've heard as opposed to what they have seen or what they actually know about offensive line play and technique.

I hear you there just because he is not in the Orlando Pace mold (who gets my vote as the most important offensive player in the last 20 years) does not mean he will not be a monster, the guy is Rolf with better footwork who should be a HOFer. And someone earlier said some stupid shit about OL being taken high is not as good as QB's because of the number of HOF's produced from each position; that just ignores the bias in HOF voting towards offensive backfield positions you might as well say that offense is about twice as important as defense because more are in the hall and about twice as many in the last 20 years. And I am one of the few people that will actually say that Offense is slightly more important. Shit, Long has allowed 2 sacks and had 2 penelties in 4 years of playing you can not ask for anything more from a tackle playing for a major program. This at the least shows that he is disciplined at the point of attack and should not spook at marque pass rushers and his body style might even be better suited to the modern NFL game than even the Joe Thomas style body type with the dying breed of multi move DE's.

Dorsy might have more upside but his upside is not so much higher that it makes up for his much lower downside than well either Long in the draft. Dorsy has not finished his last two college seasons. He has had problems with his legs and his body-type seems to suggest that they will continue to have problems in the long term.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

That's the best value pick in this draft. I don't care what anybody says.

shit, the dolphins don't even believe that. They had Dorsey rated higher, but had a bigger need at LT.

Sometimes need overshadows value as was the case with maimi. ROFL at motherfuckers acting like long is a mediocre OT prospect. Can some of the Jake Long isn't that good people please point out the technique flaws that he has? I would really love to see this since im guessing most here are underrating long on what they've heard as opposed to what they have seen or what they actually know about offensive line play and technique.

who said he's a mediocre tackle prospect? the man is going to be great.

i just have a beef with annointing him the next great Offensive tackle. do you think he belongs in the pace/ogden/munoz class of offensive tackle?

i'm very much of a proponent that you start your franchise by acquiring players who can play QB, OL, DL first. the trenches and QB play are the most important thing in football.

[ThaJim2]

So many 2nd round steals (at least in terms of athletic talent) at WR this year it is unbelievable that the bears of all WR starved teams wouldn't draft at least one of the many boom or bust prospects.

The Raiders would look dumb if Run DMc turns into the next Marshall Faulk also.

But he would have to be Marshall Faulk not close to Faulk though to justify what has become a throw-away position in the NFL. Even if he is great he will have at best an eight years of productivity and with that line and his running style he will probably take a year or two off right away. And at that pick they have to feed him the ball which also will shorten his career. It is just a bad value proposition for that team at this time. Also how is he in the passing game as i don't really remember seeing Arkansas pass much at all in the few games i saw.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

So many 2nd round steals (at least in terms of athletic talent) at WR this year it is unbelievable that the bears of all WR starved teams wouldn't draft at least one of the many boom or bust prospects.

The Raiders would look dumb if Run DMc turns into the next Marshall Faulk also.

But he would have to be Marshall Faulk not close to Faulk though to justify what has become a throw-away position in the NFL. Even if he is great he will have at best an eight years of productivity and with that line and his running style he will probably take a year or two off right away. And at that pick they have to feed him the ball which also will shorten his career. It is just a bad value proposition for that team at this time. Also how is he in the passing game as i don't really remember seeing Arkansas pass much at all in the few games i saw.

he's definitely not Ladanian, marshall, thurman thomas, ronnie harmon, or larry centers out of the backfield. he's solid for now. he has the potential to get better at that. thing with mcfadden is i don't know if he's a complete runner like Adrian Peterson. When Peterson came out, he had breakaway speed, jukes, and could run people over. i don't know if mcfadden can really run nfl players over. he does seem extremely explosive. i don't know if i'd pick mcfadden in the top 5 unless RB was a need.

also i do not think RB is a throwaway position. there have been good first round picks at RB in the past few years. but it's just like QB. if you don't give them a line to work with, unless they are great, they won't do much.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

I dont understand what the Bears are thinking. They get a pass blocking OT with the first pick which was a great decision than instead of getting a WR in the second which is a huge need they get a RB? If they are going to continue with Rex you need to give him a deep threat or why bother resigning him, they could have had Jackson.

Also the Raiders made a horriable pick with Fadan. The lines needed too much help to waste that pick on a RB.

So many 2nd round steals (at least in terms of athletic talent) at WR this year it is unbelievable that the bears of all WR starved teams wouldn't draft at least one of the many boom or bust prospects.

i'm also confused as to why the bears didn't go after one of the WR in the 2nd. not a big fan of forte even though blastmaster loves this kid. i liked kevin smith more. they could've had sweed, kelly (who i think is underrated), or desean or dexter jackson. shit, they could've had douglas, doucet, or manningham instead of bennett. why not take a chance on one of these guys when you can give another shot to benson and peterson.

i loved their picks of marcus harrison (wanted the giants to take him) and chris williams (even though i think they should've took albert).

btw, i loved this trend of no WRs in the first round. it probably will never happen again. however, i believe no WR should ever be taken in the first round unless you believe they will be an All pro. all other WRs should be taken after the 2nd round. WRs usually never do good in their rookie year and some might not even do well until their 3rd year. so why not just draft them accordingly?

[ThaJim2]

also i do not think RB is a throwaway position. there have been good first round picks at RB in the past few years. but it's just like QB. if you don't give them a line to work with, unless they are great, they won't do much.

How are they not? The average career for a NFL RB is about 3 years now and even for elite RB's there productive years are over at age 30 at the latest now and while they might drag it out for a couple more 500 yard years there are no 35 year old RBs. There is no other position that even comes close to this short of a life span.

And how many second dayers end up at least decent RB's while there is a large number of first round busts and i would wager most of those are because of what you mentioned shitty lines. Yet those first round busts cost the teams millions in bonuses and cap space while a 4th rounder cost basically nothing if they bust while they could give a team 85 percent of the first rounder. And and example to make my point look at Graham with the bucs who is the definition of replacement player and he did basically what a first round pick would be excepted.

[Julius Seizure]

i'm a big time wolverine fan and went to the big house for the first time last year. i spent much of the game focusing on long and my boy shawn crable.

long is technically perfect and totally fundamentally sound. he has the size. to me, he looked a little less athletic than the elite left tackles in the NFL and didn't have the dominating strength of, say, a tony boselli. i think he will be a very good pro. to me, i would not have drafted him #1, but i can see why, in this draft, parcells did. its a safe pick.

i like crable and think belichick can coach him into a very good olb.

don't think henne will be a quality starting QB, but could be a servicable backup. michigan qbs always seem to surprise people though.

[ThaJim2]

I dont understand what the Bears are thinking. They get a pass blocking OT with the first pick which was a great decision than instead of getting a WR in the second which is a huge need they get a RB? If they are going to continue with Rex you need to give him a deep threat or why bother resigning him, they could have had Jackson.

Also the Raiders made a horriable pick with Fadan. The lines needed too much help to waste that pick on a RB.

So many 2nd round steals (at least in terms of athletic talent) at WR this year it is unbelievable that the bears of all WR starved teams wouldn't draft at least one of the many boom or bust prospects.

i'm also confused as to why the bears didn't go after one of the WR in the 2nd. not a big fan of forte even though blastmaster loves this kid. i liked kevin smith more. they could've had sweed, kelly (who i think is underrated), or desean or dexter jackson. shit, they could've had douglas, doucet, or manningham instead of bennett. why not take a chance on one of these guys when you can give another shot to benson and peterson.

i loved their picks of marcus harrison (wanted the giants to take him) and chris williams (even though i think they should've took albert).

btw, i loved this trend of no WRs in the first round. it probably will never happen again. however, i believe no WR should ever be taken in the first round unless you believe they will be an All pro. all other WRs should be taken after the 2nd round. WRs usually never do good in their rookie year and some might not even do well until their 3rd year. so why not just draft them accordingly?

I see what you are saying about the WR in the 1st round but i don't exactly like your reasoning because that would suggest teams should never draft QBs in the first either well except Rick Meir. What I think is a good rule for teams to follow with WR is never take one that is under 6 ft, runs over say a 4.45, and have a catch rate of at least 65 percent (this number i pulled out of my ass, i am sure there is a good number though that is at least partly predictive of NFL production). Otherwise there is only about maybe 10 WR in the NFL that are year in year out elite players. From the 10th though probably 40 there really is not much difference in talent it comes down more to system and QB.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

also i do not think RB is a throwaway position. there have been good first round picks at RB in the past few years. but it's just like QB. if you don't give them a line to work with, unless they are great, they won't do much.

How are they not? The average career for a NFL RB is about 3 years now and even for elite RB's there productive years are over at age 30 at the latest now and while they might drag it out for a couple more 500 yard years there are no 35 year old RBs. There is no other position that even comes close to this short of a life span.

And how many second dayers end up at least decent RB's while there is a large number of first round busts and i would wager most of those are because of what you mentioned shitty lines. Yet those first round busts cost the teams millions in bonuses and cap space while a 4th rounder cost basically nothing if they bust while they could give a team 85 percent of the first rounder. And and example to make my point look at Graham with the bucs who is the definition of replacement player and he did basically what a first round pick would be excepted.

there are more first round busts at QB and WR then any other position.

in fact, scouts inc did an analysis on first round picks since 2000 and found out that RBs are one of the safest picks to make in the first round. QBs and WRs are easily the riskiest.

A lot of first round QBs are great players: Marino, Elway, Peyton Manning to name a few.

However, how many QBs are also great players that weren't picked in the first round: Joe Montana, Tom Brady, dan fouts

also look at this list of WRs taken after round 2: steve largent, andre reed, charlie joiner, john stallworth, dwight clark, mark clayton, hines ward, keenan mccardell (12th round), TJ Houshmanzadeh, Joe Horn. all of them were taken after round 2. anquan boldin and jerry rice were both 2nd round picks.

if anything, i feel WR is the true throwaway position.

btw, here is the link to the scouts inc article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/c ... id=3356729

EDIT: btw, i agree that RB has the shortest life span in all of sports. however, if you find a good one, they can be be very important to a team's success. having a good ground game is crucial to a team's success. the only aberrations to this were the patriots and rams....the latter of which is strange because they had a hall of fame RB.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

i'm a big time wolverine fan and went to the big house for the first time last year. i spent much of the game focusing on long and my boy shawn crable.

long is technically perfect and totally fundamentally sound. he has the size. to me, he looked a little less athletic than the elite left tackles in the NFL and didn't have the dominating strength of, say, a tony boselli. i think he will be a very good pro. to me, i would not have drafted him #1, but i can see why, in this draft, parcells did. its a safe pick.

i like crable and think belichick can coach him into a very good olb.

don't think henne will be a quality starting QB, but could be a servicable backup. michigan qbs always seem to surprise people though.

drafting an offensive tackle is usually the safest pick in all of the draft. in the past 20 years. only 2 OTs have busted in the top 10. Gallery and Mandarich. that's a good #.

[ThaJim2]

don't think henne will be a quality starting QB, but could be a servicable backup. michigan qbs always seem to surprise people though.

Really? I see Henne as the best QB in this draft. He has a large number of starts and over 60 percent compilation percentage which is the best predictors right now of NFL production for those drafted in the first 2 rounds. I dont buy any of the first rounders personally espeically that cat from rhode island or vermont or where the hell D43 he went too after he could not get the starting job at pitt.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

I dont understand what the Bears are thinking. They get a pass blocking OT with the first pick which was a great decision than instead of getting a WR in the second which is a huge need they get a RB? If they are going to continue with Rex you need to give him a deep threat or why bother resigning him, they could have had Jackson.

Also the Raiders made a horriable pick with Fadan. The lines needed too much help to waste that pick on a RB.

So many 2nd round steals (at least in terms of athletic talent) at WR this year it is unbelievable that the bears of all WR starved teams wouldn't draft at least one of the many boom or bust prospects.

i'm also confused as to why the bears didn't go after one of the WR in the 2nd. not a big fan of forte even though blastmaster loves this kid. i liked kevin smith more. they could've had sweed, kelly (who i think is underrated), or desean or dexter jackson. shit, they could've had douglas, doucet, or manningham instead of bennett. why not take a chance on one of these guys when you can give another shot to benson and peterson.

i loved their picks of marcus harrison (wanted the giants to take him) and chris williams (even though i think they should've took albert).

btw, i loved this trend of no WRs in the first round. it probably will never happen again. however, i believe no WR should ever be taken in the first round unless you believe they will be an All pro. all other WRs should be taken after the 2nd round. WRs usually never do good in their rookie year and some might not even do well until their 3rd year. so why not just draft them accordingly?

I see what you are saying about the WR in the 1st round but i don't exactly like your reasoning because that would suggest teams should never draft QBs in the first either well except Rick Meir. What I think is a good rule for teams to follow with WR is never take one that is under 6 ft, runs over say a 4.45, and have a catch rate of at least 65 percent (this number i pulled out of my ass, i am sure there is a good number though that is at least partly predictive of NFL production). Otherwise there is only about maybe 10 WR in the NFL that are year in year out elite players. From the 10th though probably 40 there really is not much difference in talent it comes down more to system and QB.

i dn't like the 4.45 # because you are definitely excluding guys like fitzgerald, boldin, jerry rice and guys who run good routes and can find seams and get open.

narrowing it down to three things is not a good evaluatory process for WRs. i also think WRs who run a bad 40 get a bad rap. a lot of WRs who've run less then expected have gone on to have great to Hall of Fame careers. a 40 is important for WRs but it's not the end all/be all.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

don't think henne will be a quality starting QB, but could be a servicable backup. michigan qbs always seem to surprise people though.

Really? I see Henne as the best QB in this draft. He has a large number of starts and over 60 percent compilation percentage which is the best predictors right now of NFL production for those drafted in the first 2 rounds. I dont buy any of the first rounders personally espeically that cat from rhode island or vermont or where the hell D43 he went too after he could not get the starting job at pitt.

flacco went to delaware. from what i've seen, he has a fucking cannon and possibly the 2nd best arm i've seen in the past few years in the draft. but i haven't even seen the kid play once. so i can't really judge the kid.

where do you find college catch rates and all that other sabermetric stuff for ncaa football?

[ThaJim2]

don't think henne will be a quality starting QB, but could be a servicable backup. michigan qbs always seem to surprise people though.

Really? I see Henne as the best QB in this draft. He has a large number of starts and over 60 percent compilation percentage which is the best predictors right now of NFL production for those drafted in the first 2 rounds. I dont buy any of the first rounders personally espeically that cat from rhode island or vermont or where the hell D43 he went too after he could not get the starting job at pitt.

flacco went to delaware. from what i've seen, he has a fucking cannon and possibly the 2nd best arm i've seen in the past few years in the draft. but i haven't even seen the kid play once. so i can't really judge the kid.

where do you find college catch rates and all that other sabermetric stuff for ncaa football?

I will respond to both of your last two posts here. I was going to point out that my general rules would exclude players like Rice and Fitzgerald and Steve smith but I was just trying to make a few quick guidelines that will in general find the receivers that have the best chance of being elite. I came up with that on the fly so it is by no means the only guidelines i would have but just a quick few of the top of my head that will get a team to get Randy Moss in the first round while letting JJ Stokes slide.

I don't have access to any stats but those you look at too but i threw out catch rate because that is something that NFL teams should have access too and this is something where i would imagine Fitgerald and Rice would have an extermely high rate that would over ride their faults.

This Flacco cat only has 26 starts which is a huge red flag for someone that will get around 10 plus million bonus. I just don't see how a cat that could not cut it in Div 1 and has so few starts could go that high. Three is just not enough film on this guy. I am also not convinced that a D2 QB can be a quality NFL QB. Most players from that level that star in the NFL do so because of there athletic ability and as you know QB is more than that.

[Julius Seizure]

don't think henne will be a quality starting QB, but could be a servicable backup. michigan qbs always seem to surprise people though.

Really? I see Henne as the best QB in this draft. He has a large number of starts and over 60 percent compilation percentage which is the best predictors right now of NFL production for those drafted in the first 2 rounds. I dont buy any of the first rounders personally espeically that cat from rhode island or vermont or where the hell D43 he went too after he could not get the starting job at pitt.

the two college teams i watch the most (and i haven't watched as much cfb over the last couple years) were BC and Michigan. To my eyes, Ryan is clearly better than Henne. Henne looks the part, but never seemed to put it all together and didn't come to play in some big games. If Ryan had the o line and weapons that Henne had, he would have won a national championship. Ryan progressed each year and playing in coach jag's offense should give him better preparation for the league than henne had playing for that dinosaur lloyd carr. Ryan is more mobile, throws better on the move, shows up more in big games...i think the only way henne really has him beat is arm stength.

any way of knowing what their wunderlich scores were?

[still illiterate]

so has anyone heard about Malcolm Kelly's knees? I heard he had a degenerative condition in both his knees, which is why he had the slow time and was off of so many peoples draft board. I only read this like a day before the draft. But it could all be bullshit.


Poppabitch, That was a dope link you posted about first round busts per position. We've had this discussion here on many occasions.

[still illiterate]

any way of knowing what their wunderlich scores were?

they're out somewhere.

Mario Manningham got a 6. Which means his parents get a check from the gov't just for raising the motherfucker.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

don't think henne will be a quality starting QB, but could be a servicable backup. michigan qbs always seem to surprise people though.

Really? I see Henne as the best QB in this draft. He has a large number of starts and over 60 percent compilation percentage which is the best predictors right now of NFL production for those drafted in the first 2 rounds. I dont buy any of the first rounders personally espeically that cat from rhode island or vermont or where the hell D43 he went too after he could not get the starting job at pitt.

flacco went to delaware. from what i've seen, he has a fucking cannon and possibly the 2nd best arm i've seen in the past few years in the draft. but i haven't even seen the kid play once. so i can't really judge the kid.

where do you find college catch rates and all that other sabermetric stuff for ncaa football?

I will respond to both of your last two posts here. I was going to point out that my general rules would exclude players like Rice and Fitzgerald and Steve smith but I was just trying to make a few quick guidelines that will in general find the receivers that have the best chance of being elite. I came up with that on the fly so it is by no means the only guidelines i would have but just a quick few of the top of my head that will get a team to get Randy Moss in the first round while letting JJ Stokes slide.

I don't have access to any stats but those you look at too but i threw out catch rate because that is something that NFL teams should have access too and this is something where i would imagine Fitgerald and Rice would have an extermely high rate that would over ride their faults.

This Flacco cat only has 26 starts which is a huge red flag for someone that will get around 10 plus million bonus. I just don't see how a cat that could not cut it in Div 1 and has so few starts could go that high. Three is just not enough film on this guy. I am also not convinced that a D2 QB can be a quality NFL QB. Most players from that level that star in the NFL do so because of there athletic ability and as you know QB is more than that.

he's not a d2 QB though. division 1-aa. steve mcnair was a division 1-aa QB as well and had a pretty good career. that doesn't mean he'll have a successful career but it's a point of reference.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

also, jim. i think you need to look at this. especially the link at the bottom.

also i do not think RB is a throwaway position. there have been good first round picks at RB in the past few years. but it's just like QB. if you don't give them a line to work with, unless they are great, they won't do much.

How are they not? The average career for a NFL RB is about 3 years now and even for elite RB's there productive years are over at age 30 at the latest now and while they might drag it out for a couple more 500 yard years there are no 35 year old RBs. There is no other position that even comes close to this short of a life span.

And how many second dayers end up at least decent RB's while there is a large number of first round busts and i would wager most of those are because of what you mentioned shitty lines. Yet those first round busts cost the teams millions in bonuses and cap space while a 4th rounder cost basically nothing if they bust while they could give a team 85 percent of the first rounder. And and example to make my point look at Graham with the bucs who is the definition of replacement player and he did basically what a first round pick would be excepted.

there are more first round busts at QB and WR then any other position.

in fact, scouts inc did an analysis on first round picks since 2000 and found out that RBs are one of the safest picks to make in the first round. QBs and WRs are easily the riskiest.

A lot of first round QBs are great players: Marino, Elway, Peyton Manning to name a few.

However, how many QBs are also great players that weren't picked in the first round: Joe Montana, Tom Brady, dan fouts

also look at this list of WRs taken after round 2: steve largent, andre reed, charlie joiner, john stallworth, dwight clark, mark clayton, hines ward, keenan mccardell (12th round), TJ Houshmanzadeh, Joe Horn. all of them were taken after round 2. anquan boldin and jerry rice were both 2nd round picks.

if anything, i feel WR is the true throwaway position.

btw, here is the link to the scouts inc article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/c ... id=3356729

EDIT: btw, i agree that RB has the shortest life span in all of sports. however, if you find a good one, they can be be very important to a team's success. having a good ground game is crucial to a team's success. the only aberrations to this were the patriots and rams....the latter of which is strange because they had a hall of fame RB.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

any way of knowing what their wunderlich scores were?

1. Most of these came from CBS's site, which has some of the scores from players' junior pro days. A few came from a recent Chicago Tribune article, that had a few of the notable Combine Wonderlic scores.

2. If there are multiple scores, I believe that means that a player took the test multiple times. It's puzzling to see say, someone score 17 and 50, but I believe that's correct. In a few cases, I have the Combine score and the junior pro days scores listed, but usually it's just pro day scores.

3. I don't have any other scores. If someone (and there are a lot of players I couldn't find) isn't there, I couldn't find them. Some more combine scores might leak, or they might not.

Matt Ryan 28/32
Brian Brohm 32/45
Joe Flacco 27/24/30
Matt Flynn 26/38
Josh Johnson 15/24
Andre Woodson 14/20
Chad Henne 22
Sam Keller 21/34

Chris Johnson 10/29
Tashard Choice 21/27
Justin Forsett 21/35
Lex Hilliard 24/50
Danny Woodhead 29/38
Matt Forte 18/25

Owen Schmitt 24/30
Jerome Felton 28/41

Andre Caldwell 8/14
Josh Morgan 19/26
Early Doucet 20/28
Keenan Burton 14/30
Harry Douglas 11/28
D.J. Hall 15/24
Luke Swan 25/34
Arman Shields 14/25
Donnie Avery 14/33
Jerome Simpson 17/23
Lavelle Hawkins 17/23

Tim Bugg 28/40
Joey Haynos 23/26
Martin Rucker 23/28
Jacob Tamme 34/34

Jake Long 26
Duane Brown 29/32
Devin Clark 11/29
Roy Schuening 26/45
Steve Justice 19/27
Jeff Otah 28/16/35
John Greco 28/36
Mike McGlynn 19/32
Chad Rinehart 35/42
Kory Lichtensteiger 29/36
Sam Baker 27
Chris Williams 32/31/37
Heath Benedict 28/39
Godser Cherilus 25/50
Brandon Albert 23
Mike Pollak 24/34
Ryan Clady 13

Quentin Groves 25/38
Darrell Robertson 30/33
Brian Johnston 16/31
Kenny Iwebema 22/28
Chris Ellis 14/22
Chris Long 34/45
Wallace Gilberry 17/50

Glenn Dorsey 21/26
Red Bryant 17/20
Carlton Powell 34/43
Kendall Langford 17/33

Xavier Adibi 13/20
JoLonn Dunbar 20/32
Spencer Larsen 25/33
Jerod Mayo 26
Vince Hall 14/23
Keith Rivers 16
Beau Bell 14/18
J Leman 31/34
Ezra Butler 17/26
Ali Highsmith 7/13
Philip Wheeler 29/42

Antoine Cason 16/28
Tracy Porter 4/23
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 19/38
Leodis McKelvin 13/34
Chevis Jackson 15/30
Charles Godfrey 11/28
D.J. Parker 13/28
DeJuan Tribble 18/33
Travis Williams 4/19
Terrence Wheatley 21/38

Simeon Castille 19/30
Jamie Silva 29/37
Corey Lynch 31/41
Thomas DeCoud 24/36
Kenny Phillips 16
Jermaine Moye 15/32

Taylor Mehlhaff 27/45

[ThaJim2]

the two college teams i watch the most (and i haven't watched as much cfb over the last couple years) were BC and Michigan. To my eyes, Ryan is clearly better than Henne. Henne looks the part, but never seemed to put it all together and didn't come to play in some big games. If Ryan had the o line and weapons that Henne had, he would have won a national championship. Ryan progressed each year and playing in coach jag's offense should give him better preparation for the league than henne had playing for that dinosaur lloyd carr. Ryan is more mobile, throws better on the move, shows up more in big games...i think the only way henne really has him beat is arm stength.

any way of knowing what their wunderlich scores were?

From what I could find Ryan 32, Brohm 32, Flacco 27 Henne 22. Those where the only QB i could find quickly. I have to admit this gives me some slight pause on Henne as he always seemed to me to be on the smarter side but it is not horriable.

The reason i like Henne is the number of games he started and the high compliation precentage*. What concerns me about Ryan is his lower complation precentage and it declined his senior year. Ryan's starts and complation precentage are most similar to Eli Manning, Rex Grossman and Pat Ramsey. He just seems to be too big of a risk for the 15 to 20 million signing bonus he will receive.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

the two college teams i watch the most (and i haven't watched as much cfb over the last couple years) were BC and Michigan. To my eyes, Ryan is clearly better than Henne. Henne looks the part, but never seemed to put it all together and didn't come to play in some big games. If Ryan had the o line and weapons that Henne had, he would have won a national championship. Ryan progressed each year and playing in coach jag's offense should give him better preparation for the league than henne had playing for that dinosaur lloyd carr. Ryan is more mobile, throws better on the move, shows up more in big games...i think the only way henne really has him beat is arm stength.

any way of knowing what their wunderlich scores were?

From what I could find Ryan 32, Brohm 32, Flacco 27 Henne 22. Those where the only QB i could find quickly. I have to admit this gives me some slight pause on Henne as he always seemed to me to be on the smarter side but it is not horriable.

The reason i like Henne is the number of games he started and the high compliation precentage*. What concerns me about Ryan is his lower complation precentage and it declined his senior year. Ryan's starts and complation precentage are most similar to Eli Manning, Rex Grossman and Pat Ramsey. He just seems to be too big of a risk for the 15 to 20 million signing bonus he will receive.

completion percentage? brian brohm has a higher completion percentage then ryan and henne. much higher.