2nd albums better than debut

aleph · Post by **aleph** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:33 pm

Busta Ry wrote:Follow The Leader
Wanted: Dead or Alive

Smoke Some Kill

Thun wrote:
The Afronaut wrote:
*gasp* Tribe - Low End Theory
Came into this thread just to hunt you down.

Save some of the the carcass for me

The Afronaut · Post by **The Afronaut** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:33 pm

Thun wrote:
The Afronaut wrote:
*gasp* Tribe - Low End Theory
Came into this thread just to hunt you down.

For the record, per our previous debate I did a thorough relistenting to PITAPOR. You were right about a lot of what you said, but LET is still a more enjoyable listen for me.

Blockhead · Post by **Blockhead** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:34 pm

Kool g rap and polo
Wanted Dead or alive>Road to riches
Jungle brothers
Done by the forces of nature>Straight out the jungle
Willie D
Goin out like a soldier>controversy
Eric B and Rakim
Follow the leader>paid in full
KMD
Black bastards>Mr. Hood (though this one is extremely close)

Doc_Holliday · Post by **Doc_Holliday** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:39 pm

I knew I would catch hell for the Artifacts post, though I don't see why its so weighted towards their first album. "That's Them" has always been better to me; their first album just sounds tired. I feel like it's a more polished album that just comes across as being more cohesive overall. "Between a Rock and a Hard Place" has spots of greatness, no doubt about that, but I don't feel like it has aged as well.

I think that the first 6 or 7 cuts on "That's Them" are just dope as fuck in terms of sequencing and beat selection, not to mention Tame kills it on this album.

The Afronaut · Post by **The Afronaut** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:42 pm

Bush Babees - Gravity

Combo7 · Post by **Combo7** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:52 pm

Heltah Skeltah - Magnum Force
Method Man - Tical 2000
NWA - Straight Outta Compton
Geto Boys - Grip It (don't know if this should count since the group had so much turnover between their first two albums)

I think the first two Eric B & Rakim and EPMD albums are pretty much dead even.

Doc_Holliday wrote:I knew I would catch hell for the Artifacts post, though I don't see why its so weighted towards their first album. "That's Them" has always been better to me; their first album just sounds tired. I feel like it's a more polished album that just comes across as being more cohesive overall. "Between a Rock and a Hard Place" has spots of greatness, no doubt about that, but I don't feel like it has aged as well.

I think that the first 6 or 7 cuts on "That's Them" are just dope as fuck in terms of sequencing and beat selection, not to mention Tame kills it on this album.

Don't sweat these motherfuckers. That's Them is superior in every conceivable way to their debut. "Where Yo Skillz At" and "The Interview" are themselves better than their entire debut sans "Wrong Side."

Blockhead · Post by **Blockhead** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:58 pm

I'll give you Tame being amazing on the album but "That's them" sounds like one long song. The beats are pretty boring and sound alike. Granted, those "type" of beats were never my thing.
Sure, the debut has some missteps but the great songs on that album far outweigh the entire "That's them" album.

Career Over Like Mike(NJJ) · Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:02 pm

I can't listen to Jay-Z anymore, but Volume 1 is emphatically better than Reasonable Doubt and his only album I'd ever consider bumping again at this point.

Semi-classics/classics better than great debuts :

Ice-T - Power
Beatnuts - Stone Crazy
Devin The Dude - Just Tryin' ta Live
T.I - Trap Muzik
The Jacka - The Jack Artist
Turf Talk - West Coast Vaccine

Good albums better than extremely patchy debuts :

Cam'ron - S.D.E
Beanie Sigel - The Reason

The Afronaut · Post by **The Afronaut** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:04 pm

I Drive A Lexus wrote:Beatnuts - Stone Crazy

Combo7 · Post by **Combo7** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:05 pm

Blockhead wrote:The beats are pretty boring and sound alike.

You can easily say the same about their debut. I like T-Ray as much as anyone else but I agree with Doc that the follow-up just sounded more polished and professional (qualities that I understand many don't care for in their rap music).

We can argue about the production but I think it's undeniable that the rhymes were stepped up on That's Them.

COOLEHMAGAZINE · Post by **COOLEHMAGAZINE** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:05 pm

The Artifacts albums are a push. I can see merits to both arguments.

How anyone could pick Tical 2000 (one of the worst rap albums I own) over Meth's debut, I just do not know. By all means, Mr. Combo, enlighten me as to why you feel this way.

Combo7 · Post by **Combo7** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:06 pm

I Drive A Lexus wrote:Beanie Sigel - The Reason

I admittedly only listened to this once years ago but I remember this album (as well as his debut) being thoroughly horrific from start to finish.

Doc_Holliday · Post by **Doc_Holliday** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:07 pm

Blockhead wrote:

I'll give you Tame being amazing on the album but "That's them" sounds like one long song. The beats are pretty boring and sound alike.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Where I see it as cohesive and a nice sequence of tracks, you are seeing it as boring.

Outside of Shawn J, the Finesse track and the Showbiz remix, I'm honestly not sure who handled the production on this one. Maybe Shawn J was going for a similar type of sound with all the tracks he worked on, thus the "one long song" feel it has.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:08 pm

Blockhead wrote:

I'll give you Tame being amazing on the album but "That's them" sounds like one long song. The beats are pretty boring and sound alike. Granted, those "type" of beats were never my thing.
Sure, the debut has some missteps but the great songs on that album far outweigh the entire "That's them" album.

This, but it's close.

The Afronaut · Post by **The Afronaut** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:08 pm

Doc_Holliday wrote:
Blockhead wrote:

I'll give you Tame being amazing on the album but "That's them" sounds like one long song. The beats are pretty boring and sound alike.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Where I see it as cohesive and a nice sequence of tracks, you are seeing it as boring.

Outside of Shawn J, the Finesse track and the Showbiz remix, I'm honestly not sure who handled the production on this one. Maybe Shawn J was going for a similar type of sound with all the tracks he worked on, thus the "one long song" feel it has.

Beatminerz did "It's Gettin Hot"

Combo7 · Post by **Combo7** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:11 pm

COOLEHMAGAZINE wrote:The Artifacts albums are a push. I can see merits to both arguments.

How anyone could pick Tical 2000 (one of the worst rap albums I own) over Meth's debut, I just do not know. By all means, Mr. Combo, enlighten me as to why you feel this way.

I admittedly haven't listend to this album since I was a teenager, but from what I can remember:

Perfect World
Cradle Rock
Dangerous Grounds
Shaolin What
Suspect Chin Music
Spazzola
Play IV Keeps
Elements
Killin' Fields
Judgement Day

are all dope to me (with the bolded titles being dope as fuck). His debut is the auditory equivalent of wading through a swamp in a dark jungle while being bit by mosquitoes.

KITFUNK · Post by **KITFUNK** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:12 pm

sean wrote:
KITFUNK wrote:
sean wrote: but in my opinion, it'd be more difficult to list debut albums that were better than sophomore releases.
Nah.

I could go on forever.
keep going. forever.

seems that your list is shorter than the running list of better sophomore joints.

You might be trolling but honestly, I have nothing better to do right now.

Monkey Barz
4,5,6
SONOGRAM
Runaway Slave
Uncontrollable Substance
HNIC
Blackout!
Whut? Thee Album
A Constipated Monkey
Watermelon, Chicken & Gritz
The Future Is Now
Heavy Mental
Clear Blue Skies

I'm done.

Career Over Like Mike(NJJ) · Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:12 pm

Combo :

<object width="480" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tMJvIYQsbJI?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tMJvIYQsbJI?fs=1&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="390"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="300"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0fkRJXj7Hmg?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0fkRJXj7Hmg?fs=1&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="300"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rCg56JPsWv4?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rCg56JPsWv4?fs=1&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="349"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/deHvthf9Cu4?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/deHvthf9Cu4?fs=1&hl=en_GB" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="390"></embed></object>

Career Over Like Mike(NJJ) · Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:14 pm

Double post.

Plz delete.

Combo7 · Post by **Combo7** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:16 pm

KITFUNK wrote:Whut? Thee Album

Hell no.

supnick · Post by **supnick** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:27 pm

sports drugs & entertainment

COOLEHMAGAZINE · Post by **COOLEHMAGAZINE** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:31 pm

supnick wrote:sports drugs & entertainment

Good call. Flawed, but you can say that about every Cam album.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:33 pm

Blockhead wrote: Sure, the debut has some missteps but the great songs on that album far outweigh the entire "That's them" album.

Other than "Wrong Side" and "C'mon Wit Tha Git Down" what are the GRRRRREAT songs on the debut?

Debut has a larger percentage of clunkers than the sophomore. Sophomore sees both emcees rap considerably better. Debut had incredible 1992 demos changed into ho-hum fake "grimy" 94 bullshit.

When's the last time you listened to the debut?

Blockhead · Post by **Blockhead** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:42 pm

Thun wrote:
Blockhead wrote: Sure, the debut has some missteps but the great songs on that album far outweigh the entire "That's them" album.
Other than "Wrong Side" and "C'mon Wit Tha Git Down" what are the GRRRRREAT songs on the debut?

Debut has a larger percentage of clunkers than the sophomore. Sophomore sees both emcees rap considerably better. Debut had incredible 1992 demos changed into ho-hum fake "grimy" 94 bullshit.

When's the last time you listened to the debut?

I've got the songs I like in rotation on my ipod (granted, that's my entire music library on "random" but stll, when they come on , I don't skip them).
The ones I like are The two you mentioned, "Whassup now, muthafacka" , "Flexi with the tech" , "Cummin thru ya fuckin' Block", "Whayback" and "Lower the boom". Granted, the last two are very dated topics but I can still listen to them. I'm guessing it's cause I like the beats.
I'll also add that Shawn J. Period is one of my least favorite producers ever, so that may explain my take on "That's them".

Req · Post by **Req** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:45 pm

I Drive A Lexus wrote:I can't listen to Jay-Z anymore, but Volume 1 is emphatically better than Reasonable Doubt

absolute hornswaggle as usual

Blockhead · Post by **Blockhead** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:45 pm

Combo7 wrote:
Blockhead wrote:The beats are pretty boring and sound alike.

You can easily say the same about their debut.

I'd say the songs that fail on "between a rock..." all fall into this category. That heavily filtered simple bass line shit with super reverbed out snare steeze that too many people were using back the,. I hated that shit.
But that really only account for like 3-5 songs on that album.

The Afronaut · Post by **The Afronaut** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:47 pm

Blockhead wrote:"Whassup now, muthafacka"
"Lower the boom"

Love both of these.

COOLEHMAGAZINE · Post by **COOLEHMAGAZINE** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:48 pm

KITFUNK wrote:
sean wrote:
KITFUNK wrote:
sean wrote: but in my opinion, it'd be more difficult to list debut albums that were better than sophomore releases.
Nah.

I could go on forever.
keep going. forever.

seems that your list is shorter than the running list of better sophomore joints.
You might be trolling but honestly, I have nothing better to do right now.

Monkey Barz
4,5,6
SONOGRAM
Runaway Slave
Uncontrollable Substance
HNIC
Blackout!
Whut? Thee Album
A Constipated Monkey
Watermelon, Chicken & Gritz
The Future Is Now
Heavy Mental
Clear Blue Skies

I'm done.

I cant go with Wut Thee Album over DIAD but otherwise that list is solid. I would add:

Goodie Mob- Soul Food
Rae- Cuban Linx
Meth- Tical
ODB- Return to the 36
Vast Aire- Look Mom, No Hands
El-P- Fantastic Damage
Big Jus- Black Mamba Serums
Billy Woods- Camouflage
Hasan Salaam- Paradise Lost
Lo Deck- Dream Dentistry
Biggie- Ready To Die
Mobb Deep- The Infamous
CNN- The War Report
The Coup- Kill My Landlord
Jay-Z- Reasonable Doubt
Snoop- Doggystyle
Megalon- A Penny For Your Thoughts
MF DOOM- Operation Doomsday
Rob Sonic- Telicatessen
Sir Menelik- Seven Eyes, Seven Horns
Black Sheep- AWISC
Killarmy-Silent Weapons
Camp Lo- Uptown Saturday Night

KITFUNK · Post by **KITFUNK** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:14 pm

Combo7 wrote:Heltah Skeltah - Magnum Force
Method Man - Tical 2000
NWA - Straight Outta Compton
Geto Boys - Grip It (don't know if this should count since the group had so much turnover between their first two albums)

I think the first two Eric B & Rakim and EPMD albums are pretty much dead even.

Doc_Holliday wrote:I knew I would catch hell for the Artifacts post, though I don't see why its so weighted towards their first album. "That's Them" has always been better to me; their first album just sounds tired. I feel like it's a more polished album that just comes across as being more cohesive overall. "Between a Rock and a Hard Place" has spots of greatness, no doubt about that, but I don't feel like it has aged as well.

I think that the first 6 or 7 cuts on "That's Them" are just dope as fuck in terms of sequencing and beat selection, not to mention Tame kills it on this album.

Don't sweat these motherfuckers. That's Them is superior in every conceivable way to their debut. "Where Yo Skillz At" and "The Interview" are themselves better than their entire debut sans "Wrong Side."

Mag Force is dope, but its not better than Nocturnal, not even close to it.

Tical 2000 was pretty whack, the joint with Busta is amazing though and I bump that in the whip daily, but the rest of the album is pretty lackluster. Fact is, Meth's debut is easily his best shit he's done and prolly will ever do, can't see him topping that.

KITFUNK · Post by **KITFUNK** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:18 pm

COOLEHMAGAZINE wrote:
KITFUNK wrote:
sean wrote:
KITFUNK wrote:
sean wrote: but in my opinion, it'd be more difficult to list debut albums that were better than sophomore releases.
Nah.

I could go on forever.
keep going. forever.

seems that your list is shorter than the running list of better sophomore joints.
You might be trolling but honestly, I have nothing better to do right now.

Monkey Barz
4,5,6
SONOGRAM
Runaway Slave
Uncontrollable Substance
HNIC
Blackout!
Whut? Thee Album
A Constipated Monkey
Watermelon, Chicken & Gritz
The Future Is Now
Heavy Mental
Clear Blue Skies

I'm done.
I cant go with Wut Thee Album over DIAD but otherwise that list is solid. I would add:

Goodie Mob- Soul Food
Rae- Cuban Linx
Meth- Tical
ODB- Return to the 36
Vast Aire- Look Mom, No Hands
El-P- Fantastic Damage
Big Jus- Black Mamba Serums
Billy Woods- Camouflage
Hasan Salaam- Paradise Lost
Lo Deck- Dream Dentistry
Biggie- Ready To Die
Mobb Deep- The Infamous
CNN- The War Report
The Coup- Kill My Landlord
Jay-Z- Reasonable Doubt
Snoop- Doggystyle
Megalon- A Penny For Your Thoughts
MF DOOM- Operation Doomsday
Rob Sonic- Telicatessen
Sir Menelik- Seven Eyes, Seven Horns
Black Sheep- AWISC
Killarmy-Silent Weapons
Camp Lo- Uptown Saturday Night

I prefer Muddy Waters to his debut and sophomore, but in a battle, debut vs sophomore, debut comes up on top.

A lot of the ones you mentioned, I mentioned on the first page, but peace to Reasonable Doubt, War Report, Goodie Mob, and Hasan. I don't really fuck with the other artists you put up so I don't know about it, but Killarmy's first two albums are pretty even to me.