Pound For Pound The Best Hip-Hop Group of All-Time

[Brougham33]

Voted De La. Imo, they just made better albums.

[step one]

Primo made beats for Christina Aguilera for christ sake.

Yeah, but that was really one of Primo's best productions in years for him. He needed to not be lazy, which he became after GURU left. Dude made 2 bar loops with a signature kick and drum texture. If we were lucky we'd get a 4 bar loop. Primo made good music for Christina Aguilera.

good to see that after making a few good points earlier in the thread you're back to talking complete bullshit.

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[Employee]

Primo made beats for Christina Aguilera for christ sake.

Yeah, but that was really one of Primo's best productions in years for him. He needed to not be lazy, which he became after GURU left. Dude made 2 bar loops with a signature kick and drum texture. If we were lucky we'd get a 4 bar loop. Primo made good music for Christina Aguilera.

That beat was the ill shit (nh).

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[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

When I think of all the stuff digital underground did, their legacy w/e, I think of 'i get around' too. Not the rest of that album obv. When it's the same group of people making the same type of music in the same studio during the same recording sessions, I really do feel that it's arbitrary to classify the music based on whose name is on the jewel case. Not tryna say this so wu tang beats outkast (i voted for tribe anyway)

Premo made 5 or 6 beats for christina and they're pretty dope, but not his best stuff in years. Almost every time I heard a new premo beat, be it with AZ, NYGz, big shug, shit they're all dope. I still bump this one track by some dude ali vegas just cause of premo's beat & scratching on it. Premo's still got it and even if he's not at his peak he's still putting out incredible material so im not mad.

Im 22 I first heard on tribe in high school and everyone I know in van who's into hip hop at all knows them. Electic relaxation and scenerio are popular with people my age.

[The Ivy League Nigga]

Serious question for all the Tribe and De La fans:

When talking about each groups influence, how do you separate and distinguish their influence on each other?

I was pretty young when they first debuted, but when I listen to People's Instinctive Travels it sounds really heavily influenced, almost derivative, of 3 Feet. And when I listen to De La later work it sounds pretty heavily influenced by Tribe's stuff.

Granted, I'm not a hardcore fan of either, though I do own and am familiar with most of their stuff. Any of you guys who were more musically aware 20 years ago care to tell me why I'm a stupid faggot new-jack?

[Roy Johnson]

This is gonna have to be a 3-way tie between De La, OutKast and Public Enemy for me. 3 incredible albums back-to-back before a flawed but pretty good 4th and a vast downfall with the 5th

You don't think that "Stakes Is High" is also an incredible album?

1. Intro
2. Supa Emcees
3. The Bizness
4. Wonce Again Long Island
5. Dinninit
6. Brakes
7. Dog Eat Dog
8. Baby Baby Baby Baby Ooh Baby
9. Long Island Degrees
10. Betta Listen
11. Itzsoweezee (H.O.T.)
12. 4 More
13. Big Brother Beat
14. Down Syndrome
15. Pony Ride
16. Stakes Is High
17. Sunshine

Tracks 5 through 10 is a pretty weak stretch. Those 10 tracks in bold represent 43 minutes worth of great music, though.

"Sunshine" is okay. It suffers from a weak refrain, but the verses are dope.

I voted for Public Enemy, but I just as easily could have chosen De La Soul.

[The Frankest]

Premier actually produced a handful of tracks for Christina, not just one.

And he's had a good amount of inspired beats since 2003 for sure. The Format, Dirty Game, Watch How It Go Down, Aint Nuttin Changed, New York Ryder Music and Shake This are all remarkably ill.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

You don't think that "Stakes Is High" is also an incredible album?

Nah. The lack of Prince Paul production, and their REAL HIP HOP!!!! grumpiness meant they lost what what made them special.

There's some incredible songs on there (Stakes Is High, The Bizness, Supa Emcees) which manage to overcome the aforementioned obstacles, but it just wasn't the same.

[clark bent]

This is gonna have to be a 3-way tie between De La, OutKast and Public Enemy for me. 3 incredible albums back-to-back before a flawed but pretty good 4th and a vast downfall with the 5th

You don't think that "Stakes Is High" is also an incredible album?

1. Intro
2. Supa Emcees
3. The Bizness
4. Wonce Again Long Island
5. Dinninit
6. Brakes
7. Dog Eat Dog
8. Baby Baby Baby Baby Ooh Baby
9. Long Island Degrees
10. Betta Listen
11. Itzsoweezee (H.O.T.)
12. 4 More
13. Big Brother Beat
14. Down Syndrome
15. Pony Ride
16. Stakes Is High
17. Sunshine

Tracks 5 through 10 is a pretty weak stretch. Those 10 tracks in bold represent 43 minutes worth of great music, though.

"Sunshine" is okay. It suffers from a weak refrain, but the verses are dope.

dinninit and especially dog eat dog are both excellent...doves verse on dog eat dog might be the best on the record...i dont know why so many people hate on this album when comparing it to the rest of their catalog...i think its their second best...yes better than BMS

[The Afronaut]

Serious question for all the Tribe and De La fans: When talking about each groups influence, how do you separate and distinguish their influence on each other?

I think thatd be extremely hard to distinguish, but youre right. The influence of both on each other is undeniable.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

I like Dinninit and Dog Eat Dog too.

Big Brother Beat is the one i find absolutely intolerable.

[Roy Johnson]

dinninit and especially dog eat dog are both excellent...doves verse on dog eat dog might be the best on the record...i dont know why so many people hate on this album when comparing it to the rest of their catalog...i think its their second best...yes better than BMS

What I dislike about "Dinninit" and "Dog Eat Dog" are the refrains, but yeah, it's hard to find a wack verse on their 4th LP.

[The Afronaut]

Nah. The lack of Prince Paul production, and their REAL HIP HOP!!!! grumpiness meant they lost what what made them special.

Said this before, but seriously if De La had made another album more in line w/the previous 3, people wouldnt be talking about the 4th AT ALL.

They HAD to change. Why hold that against them if the music was good?

[clark bent]

Big Brother Beat is the one i find absolutely intolerable.

wild guess that somewhere above 99% of that hate stems from mos defs inclusion on that track

[battlecatmeowstab212]

I have never met anyone under the age of 30 black, white, brown or whatever, male or female, who was familiar with Outkasts's first three albums.

Believe it or not, Tribe still has a pretty large cult following among younger music fans, a following that digs into their back catalog. The same is simply not true about Outkast.

One reason I find this hard to believe is because Outkast has made music post 98...How do people under 30 get into Tribes back catalog w/out even knowing who the hell they are?

Probably for the same reason the under 30 sect get into the Geto Boys - how ubiquitous their music has become in film, on television and other mediums. Thanks to the internet, kids can looks these songs up and, well, download them.

[Roy Johnson]

I like Dinninit and Dog Eat Dog too.

Big Brother Beat is the one i find absolutely intolerable.

I can recall fiending for a Mos Def solo LP right around '96 on the strength of "Big Brother Beat", the "Stakes Is High" remix, and his stuff on the Bush Babees "Gravity" LP. I'd grow to despise him soon enough, but man, there was a period of time when I was really eager to hear more material.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

wild guess that somewhere above 99% of that hate stems from mos defs inclusion on that track

60% Mos Def, 40% boring production.

They HAD to change.

There's a difference between change and regression.

This argument has been done to death, though, so let's not go through it all again.

[The Afronaut]

There's a difference between change and regression.

Agree to disagree, hence "the music was good".

This argument has been done to death, though, so let's not go through it all again.

[PopeyeJones]

i dont know why so many people hate on this album when comparing it to the rest of their catalog

Is it really so many people or just that Thun (who is more interested in reclamation projects) has led a children's crusade of people on here who parrot him about Stakes is High?

I've never heard anybody hate on this album in real life. There are couple dinosaurs out there who like to trot out Buhloone (easily the sexiest pick for those neck deep in true skool impression management) when begrudgingly acknowledging the dopeness of Stakes, but even those people don't really try to claim the album sucks off of

[clark bent]

i dont know why so many people hate on this album when comparing it to the rest of their catalog

I've never heard anybody hate on this album in real life. There are couple dinosaurs out there who like to trot out Buhloone (easily the sexiest pick for those neck deep in true skool impression management) when begrudgingly acknowledging the dopeness of Stakes, but even those people don't really try to claim the album sucks off of

yeah i was speaking of this place...i also know no one who dislikes stakes and i wont say i dont know any but i cant think of a person who thinks buhloon is their best...altho i begrudge no one who does

[Employee]

Pissed Off Pos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Employee]

I have never met anyone under the age of 30 black, white, brown or whatever, male or female, who was familiar with Outkasts's first three albums.

Believe it or not, Tribe still has a pretty large cult following among younger music fans, a following that digs into their back catalog. The same is simply not true about Outkast.

One reason I find this hard to believe is because Outkast has made music post 98...How do people under 30 get into Tribes back catalog w/out even knowing who the hell they are?

Probably for the same reason the under 30 sect get into the Geto Boys - how ubiquitous their music has become in film, on television and other mediums. Thanks to the internet, kids can looks these songs up and, well, download them.

Linkage?

[PopeyeJones]

i dont know why so many people hate on this album when comparing it to the rest of their catalog

I've never heard anybody hate on this album in real life. There are couple dinosaurs out there who like to trot out Buhloone (easily the sexiest pick for those neck deep in true skool impression management) when begrudgingly acknowledging the dopeness of Stakes, but even those people don't really try to claim the album sucks off of

yeah i was speaking of this place...i also know no one who dislikes stakes and i wont say i dont know any but i cant think of a person who thinks buhloon is their best...altho i begrudge no one who does

I to only know a few people who say Buhloone is their best album, but it definitely gets brought up in that "just so everyone knows I have good taste and am super authentic" way a lot when talking about de la. It's just the sexiest album to talk about, which isn't really a good thing or a bad thing IMO.


edit: for real. people under 30 like geto boys? must have missed that.

[Ego]

outkast

wu is next

nothing else comes close

aquemini and atliens are still in constant rotation

[Thun]

i dont know why so many people hate on this album when comparing it to the rest of their catalog

Is it really so many people or just that Thun (who is more interested in reclamation projects) has led a children's crusade of people on here who parrot him about Stakes is High?

I've never heard anybody hate on this album in real life. There are couple dinosaurs out there who like to trot out Buhloone (easily the sexiest pick for those neck deep in true skool impression management) when begrudgingly acknowledging the dopeness of Stakes, but even those people don't really try to claim the album sucks off of

Stakes Is High doesn't suck, but it is A) widely misinterpreted and b) very similar in sound to Craig Mack's "Funk Da World" which is really a huge step down from their previous efforts.

[Thun]

It's just the sexiest album to talk about, which isn't really a good thing or a bad thing IMO.

True, and I imagine that its become the sexiest one to claim as a favorite because 3ft High and Rising is a cult classic for the NPR crowd, De La Soul is Dead is the go-to choice for municipal workers and security guards, and Stakes Is High is the Bible for backpackers.

[PopeyeJones]

i dont know why so many people hate on this album when comparing it to the rest of their catalog

Is it really so many people or just that Thun (who is more interested in reclamation projects) has led a children's crusade of people on here who parrot him about Stakes is High?

I've never heard anybody hate on this album in real life. There are couple dinosaurs out there who like to trot out Buhloone (easily the sexiest pick for those neck deep in true skool impression management) when begrudgingly acknowledging the dopeness of Stakes, but even those people don't really try to claim the album sucks off of

Stakes Is High doesn't suck, but it is A) widely misinterpreted and b) very similar in sound to Craig Mack's "Funk Da World" which is really a huge step down from their previous efforts.

would love to curl up to an actual facts magnum opus on "A."
Seriously.
( )

[Roy Johnson]

I to only know a few people who say Buhloone is their best album, but it definitely gets brought up in that "just so everyone knows I have good taste and am super authentic" way a lot when talking about de la. It's just the sexiest album to talk about, which isn't really a good thing or a bad thing IMO.

BMS is my least favorite of the four, but 93-94 is my favorite De La period, all things considered.

Breakadawn (De La Soul Remix)
Ego Trippin' (LA Jay Mix)
She Fe MCs w/ ATCQ
Stix & Stonz w/ Grandmaster Caz & Prince Whipper Whip
Lovely How I Let My Mind Float w/ Biz Markie
Fallin'

[Thun]

i dont know why so many people hate on this album when comparing it to the rest of their catalog

Is it really so many people or just that Thun (who is more interested in reclamation projects) has led a children's crusade of people on here who parrot him about Stakes is High?

I've never heard anybody hate on this album in real life. There are couple dinosaurs out there who like to trot out Buhloone (easily the sexiest pick for those neck deep in true skool impression management) when begrudgingly acknowledging the dopeness of Stakes, but even those people don't really try to claim the album sucks off of

Stakes Is High doesn't suck, but it is A) widely misinterpreted and b) very similar in sound to Craig Mack's "Funk Da World" which is really a huge step down from their previous efforts.

would love to curl up to an actual facts magnum opus on "A."
Seriously.
( )

Most likely dropping next week.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

Give me a fuckin' break here.

Plenty of people in NY gave Stakes.. a stinkface when it dropped. Maybe not quite a stinkface of the caliber that Beats, Rhymes & Life got, but no Prince Paul was what initially turned a lot of people off (the key factor for me), and it was a particularly wearing listen in the same way that the KRS album from the previous year was.